Episode 334: The Rider’s Body – Your Cues vs Your Core (part 1)

Episode 334.mp3: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

Episode 334.mp3: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Speaker1:
So he’s going forward. Right now you’re using your legs. Using your legs. He stops. You stop using your legs. You turn him, you turn him. Your legs aren’t in use, your legs aren’t used. Your legs are being used. He stops. You let go of your legs. You turn him. Your legs are being used. You turn him. Your legs are being used. He turns on his own. He’s actually kind of smart. Legs are being used.

Speaker2:
Podcasting from a little cabin on a hill. This is the Stacy Westfall podcast. Stacy’s goal is simple to teach you to understand why horses do what they do, as well as the action steps for creating clear, confident communication with your horses.

Speaker1:
Hi, I’m Stacy Westfall and I’m here to help you understand, enjoy and successfully train your own horses. Today’s episode is part one of exploring the rider’s body quadrant of the Foursquare model, which is what I’ve been talking about on the last several episodes. If you want to go hear all of them. This piece of the Foursquare model, the rider’s body includes obvious things like your reins and your legs, your cue system, but it also includes the way that your whole body speaks to your horse, often without you realizing it. Today, I’m going to mostly focus on what we could call the mechanical skills or the cue system. My absolute favorite thing about these two quadrants the rider’s body and the horse’s body. My favorite thing is that they are completely wordless. I love interacting with horses without words, which presents a challenge when I’m explaining it to you, especially on a podcast. I have to put it into words, and sometimes in doing that, that full embodied experience is lost in translation. So when I was thinking about how to best illustrate this dance for you, this dance of the skill set and that full body experience, I kept coming back to the breakthrough moments that happened when riders are right at this tipping point, when they’re learning something and it’s tangible in their voice how they’re experiencing it. I am always just blown away by the brilliance that people show as they are walking through moments like this, and it’s really hard to put into words, but it is an absolute joy to be part of.

Speaker1:
I have for years laughed when I’m training my horses because the joy comes from the interaction. It’s not all about whether it’s working or not working in the moment. It’s really about that conversation, that interaction. And especially when I’m training horses as they begin to grasp what’s going on. The moment that that conversation really becomes tangible is where it feels like training from that point on just has a complete shift, because it’s amazing that this horse is trying to figure out how to communicate with me. What I didn’t know early on in my training career that I do know now, is there is a point where the same thing happens when I’m coaching riders, just like with the horses. It’s not about riders knowing all the correct answers, it’s about the riders openness to the process of learning. So I’ve decided the best way to get started on this quadrant is by sharing a coaching moment with you, because this conversation shows the dance between the physical skill set and the rider’s full awareness of what’s happening. You’ll be able to hear as she works through the process, and you’ll be able to hear the wobbles or the hesitations in her voice. And I promise you, when your explanations sound unclear like hers will, the lack of clarity will also show up in your body. You’ll also be able to hear my clarity as I explained to her what’s going on.

Speaker1:
My very favorite short clip of this coaching session is at the end of this podcast, but I’ve decided to put in some of the earlier coaching because she references it as we’re going through this conversation. In this first clip, I’m reviewing my concept of the idea that horses go through elementary school, high school and college, and this is going to matter a lot, because when we get to the rider talking about her own horse and her riding, she’s riding a horse who’s in elementary school. For a very simplistic view, I want you to think about elementary school as being where you learn the ABCs in elementary school, there’s a lot of clarity. The rules are simple. You’re learning to spell form sentences. Memorize basic facts. You’re not expected to explain your reasoning or get really creative. You’re just learning the basic pieces. Then when you move into high school, everything starts getting a little more complex. You start using those same foundational tools, but now you’re being expected to write essays and analyze literature and communicate with these abstract ideas. And that’s where you start realizing that there are multiple ways to say the same thing, and suddenly it’s not quite as clear what the right answer is. So as you’re trying to say what you mean, it doesn’t always land. And literally that’s part of the process. Then if you go on into college or you go out into the world and you get a job, you start learning how to communicate clearly, especially in your area of expertise, whatever that is.

Speaker1:
And at that point, the fundamentals are still there, but they’re second nature. You know how to express what you mean and how to adjust if it’s not landing. I find it useful to view horse training through that same progressive lens. We teach the horses some early basic black and white type feeling things. Elementary school, for example. The direct rein left rein means go left. Right rein means go right legs mean go forward. Then as we start combining things, it’s like high school where you start communicating with more abstract ideas. For example, the indirect rein, it’s literally in the name, it’s more complex. It’s indirect. Okay, let’s listen to the audio and I’ll be back in a minute to explain the next clip. I do like to call high school the messy middle. I don’t know how your high school was. I still think the high school period of life. There’s a lot of change that happens from the time you come into high school to the time you get out of high school. And so for me, with the horses, elementary school has a lot of clarity in it. We’re going to talk about why some of the queue systems are taught the way they are because of the simplicity of elementary school. And I’m here to tell you that when you get to the other side of high school, the messy middle with the horses, I can explain why it feels messy and that the messy is a piece of the actual learning process and what we can do to make it less messy.

Speaker1:
Which number one will be like clearing up in our own minds so we can help the horse? When the horse is having the moments where they’re basically saying, this seems like a contradiction. And if you’re also with them saying you’re right, this seems like a contradiction. It’s going to get a little muddier than if the horse says, this seems like a contradiction. And you say, yes, I can totally see where this seems like a contradiction. In elementary school we were doing this, and right now this is how this feels. And sometimes and sometimes and sometimes. Remember that whole I before e except it’s like that. And so that we’re going to talk about that so that you can have clarity. So you can have that confidence when you’re explaining it to the horse. Because there’s legitimate questions for both of you. And then I’m here to just tell you that when you get to the other side, when you get to college, it becomes the simplicity again, if you know how it was built. The exception to this is if you buy a college level horse and you start riding it when you don’t understand how the the cue systems were installed, the very interesting thing is you can modify and uninstall them and change them, because that’s a lot of what the horses were trained to do was like, oh, you want to make this mean this? Because that’s what we do a lot in that messy middle.

Speaker1:
Learn and try to see. Because I’m going to present a lot of this from the horse’s point of view. Try to see from the horse’s point of view so you can see why the horse might be confused. And then we can untangle, like how your body can participate, how your mind is controlling your body, how your mind is interpreting the horse’s body, and how your interpretation of the horse’s body is probably also informing your interpretation of what that horse was meaning in its head. You know, he just doesn’t want to do this. Maybe he’s just confused and he just needs more clarity. So there’s all this stuff that we want to pull apart. So when we’re looking at it, we want to look at some of the simplicity of the beginning, and then we want to look at how those beginning aids help us in the middle. And then I think it’s super fun to look at where they can go in the future, because in the future, in the very opposite end of it, instead of the direct rein,, we’re using the indirect rein, instead of the legs only meaning go forward. The legs can mean stop and sideways and slow and fast and hips only sideways, shoulders only sideways and whole horse sideways. And so we’re going to talk about all of this.

Speaker1:
Okay I’m back. Now I want to explain to you this next clip that you’re going to listen to. This is where I begin doing a video review with a student that’s been working with me for a while. I think it’s important to note that I’m about to move pretty quickly with her, because I know what she’s capable of. That’s one of my favorite parts of my online programs, is that I get to work with people over and over again, and because they get repeated coaching, I develop a greater sense of where they’re at and what gaps need to be closed. And on top of that, all of the other students who are watching get to learn from the interaction. That’s what’s about to happen for you right here. You’re about to eavesdrop on a conversation between me and a student. And even though I’m reviewing her video, and it might be tempting to think that because you’re listening to a podcast, you’re going to lose something you’re not. And here’s why. Just because we are both watching the same video, the student and I does not mean we’re seeing the same thing. So even though the rider rode the horse, made the video and is now watching the video with me. Listen to how much clarity I have around what’s happening. And that’s because I understand that we’re not visually seeing the same thing. So I’m about to explain it to her, and because I explain it very clearly to her, you’re going to be able to understand it even though there was a video that went with it.

Speaker1:
This goes back to what I opened with the challenge of trying to put into words an embodied experience. I’ve done this so frequently that I can put into words what was going on more clearly than she can, and I can explain what her horse was experiencing because I can see it in her body. In this section, you’re going to hear the students brilliant observation as I ask her questions, and you’re going to hear me laughing, because it really is a pleasure to work with students who are having these breakthrough moments. And remember this, even though we’re in the rider’s body quadrant and we’re focused so much on the cue system and how her body is showing up, I really want you to also pay attention to that. You can hear that she’s not judging herself as she’s learning in these moments where you can hear her openness and her own open observations. Those are the moments where she’s displaying the work that she’s done around not judging herself as she goes through this learning process. What that does is it leaves her open to receiving new information without that cringing experience. Okay, let’s listen to the audio. So what? Tell me what was going on here as and just kind of ignore me as I rewind it, pause it, play it, and look at it.

Speaker3:
But here I’m getting more focused on him and obviously wanting him to go forward. And he’s like, no, that was a little whip, uh, with the rein, and then try to break the legs loose and I get a little bit.

Speaker1:
Yep.

Speaker3:
He has just returned from his 60 days of Colt starting at the trainers, and this is the second time I’ve ever been on him since that. So.

Speaker1:
Okay. When what what do you see in this video?

Speaker3:
Um, I just I don’t feel like he’s very attuned to me. He’s kind of. I feel like he’s in his own world and I’m in my own world here.

Speaker1:
Mhm, mhm. When you say you feel like you’re in your own world, what. Tell me a little bit more about it. Like, what are you thinking in your world?

Speaker3:
So going back to what you were talking about a little bit earlier, about kind of having that whole intention set and the leg cues and the hand cues, and I was the one who made the comment about this. Sounds like my schoolmaster training lesson yesterday. Um, you know, my I get so busy trying to think about all those individual pieces that that whole concept of college level and the horse riding, the whole you and the whole you sending one congruent message like, yep, I don’t have that right now.

Speaker1:
Mhm. Yeah. And it’s kind of interesting because you can actually kind of see how that shows up in elementary school. It’s actually to me it’s kind of cool because in elementary school the need for that clarity that like intention of like we’re going over here is also the other place where it feels the strongest. The earlier you ride a colt in its training, the stronger. So like when I get on a Colt for the first time, that is when I like with everything I know. When I get on for the first ride, that is where it my intent for that ride is as strong and clear, because it’s the strongest and the clearest on that first ride, every bit as strong and clear as it was in that bareback and bridleless ride, because it’s literally like a lifesaver over here. And there has to be such a purpose in my body and my way of being, that it is just that there’s just no room for the confusion or lack of clarity. That a lot of times when people start learning how to ride the horse, kind of knows how to go and stop and has had some miles on it and maybe moves away from the leg. They’re kind of somewhere in there, and the people take lessons on these horses, and then what happens is you take a lesson on the lesson horse. And a lot of times they’re like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You kind of vaguely apply that aid and you just want to trot down the center line or. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You vaguely apply that aid and that’s going to equal a spin. It gives you the impression that the aid overrides the intent because the horse is filling in the blanks. What was your main thinking like when you look at your core and your main overall being what’s your body saying?

Speaker3:
Well, my body right now looks to me like it’s saying stand still.

Speaker1:
I am so proud of you. I’m so proud of you. Because yes, that’s totally like I mean, you’re very grounded. You’re very solid and grounded and solid don’t sound like bad things, but there’s a huge overall groundedness. And then there’s this whisper of a leg and the horse’s sightseeing. I mean, we can kind of see. See, it’s not like he’s overly concerned with what your legs are doing. What do you think he’s making your legs mean, right there?

Speaker3:
Uh, not much. I mean, definitely not making the mean go forward. He seems to be kind of tuning them out, like making them mean tune them out.

Speaker1:
Which is desensitizing.

Speaker3:
Backing out. Yeah, that’s what.

Speaker1:
About sacking out? Desensitize it totally. Exactly. You’re 100% on track. I’m back. Did you hear it? Her observation of what her body was saying when she looked at it on video. That’s the power of video. Now, this next clip gets even more specific on the cue system. I’m going to ask her to tell me in order the aids that she sees herself giving. And then I’m going to tell you what I see. Are you ready? Let’s go. We have our first moment. You guys are kind of walking along and then. We kind of stop. And then what did you go to first?

Speaker3:
The inside rein,.

Speaker1:
Okay. Yep. You go to the inside Rein,. So he stops and you went to the rein, and you start walking, and then he stops and you go to the rein,.

Speaker3:
Okay. Instead of going to the seat.

Speaker1:
Well, let’s keep watching. Let’s see what he says. You guys trotted off here. Kind of trotting around.

Speaker3:
Look pretty happy right there.

Speaker1:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, once you get him going, tell me the cue system he’s experiencing right now as you do this, just in this, just from the time that he stopped. And you guys are having this conversation right here. Tell me, in order the age you see being given.

Speaker3:
Um, well, definitely inside Rein,. And then I think there’s some So and then like at the end, which kind of sounds like a reverse order when I’m saying it out loud.

Speaker1:
So let me, let me, let me say what I see. Let me go back to the beginning of it.

Speaker3:
And the other thing is I’m crossing over his neck with my outside hand.

Speaker1:
So so he’s going forward. Right now. You’re using your legs. Using your legs. He stops. You stop using your legs. You turn him, you turn him. Your legs aren’t in use. Your legs aren’t used. Your legs are being used. He stops. You let go of your legs. You turn him. Your legs are being used. You turn him. Your legs are being used. He turns on his own. He’s actually kind of smart. Legs are being used. He turns. Legs are being used. Reins are being used to turn him while the legs are being used. Legs stop being used when he hit the deck. And then they started being used. And then you turn them. Then you use the end of the whip.

Speaker3:
Number one, which is lack of clarity. Yeah, confusing him with the leg use and then stopping it and turning.

Speaker1:
Yeah. So if you watch this clip, then you’re sitting here and you’re waving the legs, waving the legs and then turning him.

Speaker3:
Yep.

Speaker1:
Watching this series, because you’re being so consistent with what follows. Leg wave.

Speaker3:
A turn.

Speaker1:
Yeah. Yeah. So if you watch him, it’s actually like your third or fourth turn. He’s like, oh look, legs mean turn. Watch him. I haven’t even watched this part. He was already starting to think which way he was going to go. He’s losing more and more of the clarity that legs mean. Go forward.

Speaker3:
Okay.

Speaker1:
Makes sense.

Speaker3:
Yep. Yeah. That there was the clip you did before where you could see it just crystal clear.

Speaker1:
Yep.

Speaker3:
Yep. Maybe the turn right before the one where you said, yeah, you can see him doing it on his own now.

Speaker1:
Yeah, yeah. So what you have to watch is you have to watch that again. It feels like it’s happening super fast. And this is why, if nothing else, and I know he just came back from the trainer and I could ask you about all the cues. And here’s what we don’t have to discuss. But it’s super tempting to it’s super tempting to discuss how this horse, you know, had the trainer was doing rollbacks and turns, and the horse is so dialed in on the leg and we could discuss all of that. And none of it changes the fact that the system that’s not understood right now is that when you’re using the legs, he needs to go forward. You did an excellent job going through that.

Speaker3:
Cool.

Speaker1:
Thank you. You’re very welcome. I don’t know how that landed with you. Feel free to email me and let me know. But for me, if I’m going to take a wordless conversation between a horse and rider, which is what the rider’s body interacting with the horse’s body is, and I’m going to try to make it an audio clip. I think this coaching perfectly illustrates the dance of the rider’s body. It demonstrates the technical physical skills that are needed, as well as the real time awareness of what’s happening. What I especially enjoyed about this clip was that although we are primarily discussing the technical skills of riding, this rider does such an excellent job of illustrating someone who’s not blocked by their emotional responses to what’s happening. You can audibly hear that she’s not frustrated, disappointed, or overwhelmed with the session with her horse or with the coaching she’s receiving. And I’m coaching fast here. There’s no indication that she’s going to walk away and be beating herself up about it. She was very willing to observe her own hesitations about moving, which came up earlier when we were talking about how grounded and still her body looked. And yet it makes perfect sense. She’s on a horse that she just got back from a trainer. The horse doesn’t have a lot of experience, and she hasn’t ridden the horse very much. It’s tempting to think that the rider’s body is primarily about technical skills or mechanics, but the reality is that riding requires both the physical skills, like when she was pulling on the rein when she was releasing with her legs.

Speaker1:
But it also involves your emotions. I like to say that your emotions are always oozing out through your body and becoming part of your overall communication system. So when the rider was asking her young horse to move, but really her whole body was hesitant about moving and just her legs were moving, that hesitation was oozing out of her, stronger than her leg cue. In the next episode, I’m going to follow up with a part two of the rider’s body because there’s a lot more to cover here. Your body is what your horse is constantly reading, not just the cues you think you’re giving with your legs or your reins, but your entire emotional state. For right now, I want to encourage you that the first step in this is developing an awareness of what is currently happening. And a great way to do this is by recording your rides. Learning to evaluate your rides is a skill you can be taught, or you can do something like this rider did and bring them to a coach for feedback. That’s what I have for you this week, and I’ll talk to you again in the next episode.

Speaker2:
If you enjoy listening to Stacy’s podcast, please visit Stacy Westfall. Com for articles, videos and tips to help you and your horse succeed.

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