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Podcasting from a little cabin on a hill. This is Stacy Westfall podcast. Stacy's goal is simple to teach you to understand why horses do what they do, as well as the action steps for creating clear, confident communication with your horses.
Hello, I'm Stacey Westfall, and I teach people how to understand, enjoy and successfully train their own horses in this first season of the podcast. I'm discussing issues that affect the way that riders think. In the last podcast, I talked about the three stages that I see people go through on their horsemanship journey. And I discussed a little bit about responsibility in today's part, too. I would like to go ahead and dive a little bit deeper into how I think responsibility and accountability fit into those three stages. I send out a weekly e-mail and I get a lot of feedback from the different subjects. And when I talked about responsibility, I received feedback that was very helpful for understanding what I'm trying to explain right now. And I'm going to start with a short recap of the dreamer phase, the learner phase and the balancing phase. And then I'm going to read you a couple of these pieces of feedback. The dreaming phase is the phase when people enter owning horses and they just expected to work. And I'd like to call it my Disney phase when I talk about it personally. The learning phase, I quickly summarize as being nuts and bolts how things work. This is how you move this hip, move the shoulder. This is how you create a lead change. And that's the nuts and bolts. And the balancing phase is when you can actually hold on to both of the ideas, the dreaming and the learning phase.
And you can move back and forth between those two in a discussion of responsibility. The interesting thing is that there is some resistance in people who are unaware that they're afraid of giving up that dreaming phase and moving Alton nuts and bolts. See if you can hear that in some of this feedback. So Rene says, yes, I would be someone who would say, hmm, that seemed mean. I was writing an email about leaving your horse tied for a certain amount of time. Another piece of feedback. I love, love, love this. And then the sign off she used was Mom wimp afraid to make him hate me. Because I do these silly little sign-off things on my weekly emails. And then another Bryce says, wow, this one's very hard. I know I'm too soft and I have all the buts. My guy was abused and severely neglected. He's doing great now. But I think that it's partly because that he's being treated fairly by me. I don't know if I could tie my horse up for an hour. I've ridden him alone. It's not as productive. I want to progress slowly. And so people have a lot of fun riding back and forth with me when they're on the email list. But this was a very interesting one because this is what people often feel. They have to give up when they are sensing that they're moving from that dreaming phase into that learning phase. I think without having the words, they're afraid that they have to choose one or the other.
And this is my attempt to be able to explain that you can actually have both at the same time. But this is going to bring up how are we going to hold this horse accountable? And at the end of the day, if it was just as simple as saying there's a dreaming phase and a learning phase and a balancing phase. Those all sound very pretty. But when we say that the dreaming phase then leaves the horse with almost too much responsibility and very little accountability. This is that phase where people hope it works and they think maybe next time it will work, but they don't have any actual actions they're taking. They're just dreaming that all work better. The learning phase being the phase where there's very nuts and bolts. A lot of times people are afraid to move from the dreaming phase to the nuts and bolts phase because they're afraid they have to choose one or the other. And inside of that, it also means what does this mean for my accountability with the horse? And whose responsibility is this? So in the dreaming phase, in the dreaming phase, the responsibility ends up ultimately all with the horse. Because people think it's going to magically work. So therefore, the responsibility is actually all on the horse to magically work. This is why when I was younger, I experienced a lot of frustration because my horse didn't act like the black stallion and so therefore something wasn't working.
When we move into the learning phase, the responsibility actually shifts completely typically over to the rider, and the rider then feels like they're 100 percent responsible for whatever happens. And so in that phase, the riders actually making themselves completely responsible. When we talk about accountability in that dreaming phase, the horses had no accountability that had us hoping. But if it didn't work, it just didn't work in the learning phase. When we pick up the fact that we're going to be responsible, we're then not sure what that means as far as how we're going to hold that horse accountable. And then in the fear of how we're going to hold the horse accountable, because there's going to end up being consequences, we intuitively know that when even in human relationships, when there are consequences for the actions, when people are held accountable, that not everybody likes that. And the same is true for horses. You're going to find some horses that are real easy going and they accept, you know, the things that they learn and they understand. And they may ask some questions, but they're not really that pushy about it. And then you're gonna get the ones that are more naturally confident and they're going to say, yeah, but what about this and that pushback from the horse, because that's just naturally who they are watching in the herd. And you'll actually know a lot about the horse you're going to work with.
But that natural pushback is something that people go to. I don't know if I could set a boundary there and if I set a boundary, would my horse still like me? And so this is why it's important to maybe step back when you're watching some videos and you're watching training videos or you're watching something on YouTube or your stopping and just reflecting on something, you remember seeing maybe a horse expo or somewhere like that. Try to think about. Do you think it's possible in human relationships even to have great accountability, actually breed more trust? So I'm going to say that in a high school, I know there are as a teacher that sets very high standards for the students and holds the students to this high standard. And in this high school, this teacher ends up actually being maybe the most respected person there. So somewhere in this mix of responsibility and accountability, we actually breed this form of respect. I would like to propose that when you are working with your horse, he is 100 percent responsible and you are 100 percent responsible. Picture it like this. There's 200 percent responsibility between the both of you. He is 100 percent responsible for him. You are 100 percent responsible for you. And when you come together and you interact, you're gonna have to work out what the consequences are, how the horse is going to be held accountable inside that relationship.
And if that sounds a little bit scary. Just look at the horses in the herd because you're gonna find out that these lines are already being set out there in the herd. And one horse is going to have a certain line here and the other horse is going to respect that or question that or do different things with that. And you need to maybe step back and just stand outside the pasture and watch and try to think what emotions you're going to put on to these different interactions that you're seeing, because the horses have a beautiful thing where they don't really wrap a lot of emotion up into the fact that this horse can push me away from the feed bin or this horse, you know, is the one that is the first one to the gate and nobody else is allowed to get closer. They lay down these lines and the other horses, except these lines for the most part. And the horses that challenged those lions are telling you something about who they are when you go to work with them. As I wrap this up, what I'd like you to do is stop and just think about how you are interpreting the things that I'm saying. When I talk to you about the dreaming stage, the learning stage, the balancing stage. When I bring up words like responsibility and accountability and respect, how do those words fit in with what you're experiencing with your horse?
If you want to share some of those or if you want to read about what other people are thinking about. Jump on over to Stacey Westfall dot com and you will find the podcast episode, show notes for this and the comment and discussions below that. Thank you.
If you enjoy listening to Stacie's podcasts, please visit Stacy Westfall dot com for articles, videos and tips to help you and your horse succeed.
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I too will always want to continue to learn more about horses.. I have ridden all my life in the Western Disciplines and I am now, learning Dressage.
I have a question for you…regarding my 13 year old, 15h, mutton withered, short backed, round bodied Paint and saddle placement.
It took 40 western saddles and over 5 years with many professionals….and in October 2018, I finally found saddles in both disciplines for my little Tank. It was much easier to find a Dressage Saddle…I only went through 5. Along this saddle journey, I hired Vets, Body Workers, Equine Chiropractors and saddle fitters, I have found that there are so many “ideas” as to where to place the saddle on the horse’s back, both with Dressage and Western Saddles. I have not found any two professionals that agree on just where and how they place the saddle. I have had 25 horses in over 60 years and I’ve never had so many fitting challenges as with this horse. I recently purchased a shoulder relief cinch, in both disciplines and it has also helped, greatly. Although I have found saddles to fit this horse, regardless; I would still like to hear your opinion on saddle placement and markers, please. Thank you.
I think this should be a video sometime down the road when I’m hanging out with some saddle fitters. Saddle fit is about like shoe sales. So many feet, so many uses, so many issues, so many opinions!
The number one feedback I take is from my horse. I always check for soreness and quiz my massage therapist and chiropractor for their opinions. I can also feel things change.
At the core I think that this ‘change’ is ultimately the biggest problem. For example, an unfit horse worked for six months changes. A young horse still growing-changes. An older horse losing muscle tone changes. So much change! I take it back. Fitting shoes is easier than saddles!
I’ll keep this subject in mind when making videos. The short answer is that there is NO EASY ANSWER.
I’ve carried this little bit of mindfulness with me throughout the past few days since listening to the podcast. This helped me realize that I was setting loose standards, and really just confusing my horse more in the process – which is more detrimental to the horse in the long run. Setting standards and following them is so important with horses, and the best and only way to build a strong relationship with them. I am guilty of not always sticking to my own standards with my mare; but we are both better, individually and together, when expectations are met. Thanks for the advice, Stacy.
I am in the learning phase, and I love to see the change in my horse when I make him accountable. I think of him as an unruly teenage boy who challenges my limits. But he quickly changes his tune and becomes respectful when I make him responsible for his actions and the choices he makes. I am in awe of the rapid change in behavior after demanding a little work out of him when he is making poor choices, that being moving his feet or standing quietly when it is not his choice. He always seems happier and more relaxed after reminding him of limits and his role and responsibility of his own actions. Before I began expecting his participation in our relationship he was unruly and dangerous because I allowed that, when I was trying to be responsible for everything.
Great topic! I really like how you said the horse is 100% accountable and you are 100% accountable. Its a partnership with 200% accountability. If one fails, the other one fails. It makes sense! If you dont take 100% while riding your horse, they aren’t gonna be 100% either. If you hold high standards or accountability, you get respect and achieve better- just like the teacher in the school analogy! That was great. It really got me thinking about putting leadership, respect and accountability all together as an equine partner. That is one reason now why I’m clicking more with my sister’s tough gelding. I know where I am as a leader and rider on him, which makes him and I right around the 200% team accountability together. This is all making sense now!
I definitely put too much responsibility of myself. If I don’t get the result i want, I think it is all my fault. It may not always be my horse’s either, but I need to realize that I’m still learning and my responsibility right now is to do the best I can for where I am now.
Interesting.
This is so accurate. I struggle with staying neutral when something goes wrong or my horse doesn’t respond correctly. I struggle not taking things personally. I tend to take all the responsibility, but I try to remind myself that the horse is also responsible too. We both share it. Like you said, I try to watch how my horse or another horse interacts and what he is like in the herd. That helps me understand how and why he is responding. I know me and my horse has some more work to do but we have already come a long ways!
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!
-Bekah
It’s amazing how responsibiltiy and accountability can be directed towards kids as well!!!
Many people and trainers talk about the relationship between horse and rider as a partnership. However, it’s rarely discussed as responsibility or accountability. Thank you Stacy for making this clearer for me. When I hear people talk about a partnership with their horse, I envision horse and rider working in sync with one another but not how they got to that point. Adding the idea of responsibility and accountability alters that vision. This podcast explains it very well. To reach a partnership the horse and rider must both share equal parts of the responsibility and be held accountable. I like how you mention that you will have to work out the consequences inside your relationship. Not all horses will willingly accept their share of the responsibility. As you mentioned in a previous podcast, some horses will really challenge your leadership. So in entering a relationship with a horse there are variables that you will have to work out. Consequences to the efforts of creating a partnership.
Stacy what an important topic to cover. I think that especially in the dreaming stage many people forgot that they are working with a 1000 poimd animal,with its own mind and personality. It is our responsibility as a rider to keep ourselves and horses safe. It took me a little time to understand that loving our horses is important but if we let them walk all over us and do not hold them responsible for their actions we are not doing right by that horse and opening the door for potential dangerous situations. I love love how you talk about how their is a total of 200% accountability with 100% for the rider and 100% for the horse. It is a partnership and team work is so important and neither horse nor rider should bare all the burden. I try to find a balance of making sure I am loving my horses and treating them right but also making sure I am showing them that I will not be pushed around and inviting in dangerous situations for us both. It is so critical to build a trusting relationship with your horse as it is the foundation of everything that we do with our horses and it is the glue that holds the horse and human partnership together. If I do not hold myself and my horse responsible and accountable I cannot have trust and we cannot move toward as a team. My favorite podcast thus far such an important topic and great thoughts.
I haven’t thought of it like that before.
Hey Stacy I like the way you explain what you are trying to get across regarding the three stages including accountability and responsibility. The teacher with high standards must also be a great leader to have those students believing in the teacher and that there will be a consequence if they don’t perform. We as humans need to understand that horses are not humans and do not think like we do. Horses deal with each other quite simply and if we replicate those actions we too will end up with a respectful horse. All horses are born with ten inherent traits that we as humans have a responsibility in understanding each of those traits to fulfil our potential and the horses, and be safe working around horses, none of those traits mention emotions or the horse liking or disliking someone or something. I mentioned in another comment about our responsibility to provide clear direction and guidance to the horse and thus allowing/giving the horse responsibility to find the right answer. If we provide clear direction and guidance and the horse does not respond then there must be a consequence, however we must also be very aware of our signals – are they clear enough, is my focus and direction crystal clear, does the horse understand what I’m asking him/her to do – this is my responsibility to ensure I get the questions right.
This specific podcast is a motivator for me… the phrase “When you are working with your horse you are each 100% responsible.” really hits home and drives me to try and hold my equines more accountable. I definitely hold myself accountable if I feel like I didn’t hold up my end of whatever we’re doing. Each of us being 100% accountable equals a great partnership!
Wow, very interesting concept!
I’m definitely in the learning phase, as far as holding myself 100% responsible for whatever my horse does. If he doesn’t do what I’m asking for, I tend to think, “Maybe I didn’t ask correctly. Maybe he just doesn’t understand and needs more training in this area.” While these things may be true, I need to hold my horse responsible for his actions also. I’m still figuring this balance out, but this podcast helped a bunch!
I love the part in this podcast about going back and watching your horse in the pasture. You have to see how your horse is without you being there to influence his decisions. You have to be a leader and teacher before your horse will really understand what you are asking of him. It’s awsome watching horses in the herd because you can see their responsibility in that herd and what place they fall into in that herd.
The responsibility podcast has been my favorite. I used to struggle with the horse liking me and creating a very misbehaved animal. I am moving past that, and your comments help.
I think your concept of achieving balance could be a multipart podcast all on its own. We all love the magic. It’s part of what drew us here. If we’re honest we know we need to grow but don’t want to lose that part. Please keep working on examples of ways to keep the magic.