Episode 1: Fear vs Danger: Riders can improve if they know the difference
Welcome to season one of the Stacy Westfall podcast. I’m Stacy Westfall, and I’ll be teaching you why horses do what they do and action steps for creating clear confident communication with your horses. In this first season, I’ll be discussing issues that frequently affect the way that riders think.
I use a tool called the four square model. The purpose of this model is to simplify complex problems and break them down into smaller actionable pieces. The four quadrants include the rider’s mind, the rider’s body, the horses mind, and the horse’s body. Season one will focus on the rider’s mind. Today’s episode is about fear. I talk about how it is different than danger and some of the ways that it affects riders.
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Show Notes
[00:34] Season one will be about issues that frequently affect the way riders think.
[00:47] One of the tools that I use is the four-square model to simplify complex problems by breaking them down into smaller actionable pieces.
[01:05] The model is created with four quadrants which include the rider’s mind, the rider’s body, the horse’s mind, and the horse’s body.
[01:43] This first season of the podcast will be focusing on the rider’s mind. Today, I’ll be discussing fear and how it is different than danger and some of the ways that it affects riders.
[02:30] Fear is something that you experience in your mind. Danger means that you are actually in physical danger.
[02:59] Melanie writes in about having a fear of riding.
[03:51] Think about having fear and anxiety about riding.
[04:21] Fear in people’s minds is frequently because there isn’t a guaranteed outcome.
[05:08] There’s no guarantee that your riding experience will always remain the same.
[06:11] Letting fear hold us down guarantees we won’t achieve what we want.
[06:14] An email example about another horse owner not riding because of fear.
[07:18] If you really want to do something, don’t let the fear of not having a guaranteed experience stop you. Otherwise, you are guaranteeing pain.
[08:57] Even when you have fear, you will live through it and at least you know you tried.
[09:45] One of the greatest ways to learn is by making mistakes.
[10:51] Other people are also experiencing fear.
[11:07] We literally teach our horses to face their fears, because we want them to know that not all fear equals danger. The same thing is true for you.
[11:34] What is one step you can take to face your fear?
[11:54] Sharing your fear in a comment can be one small step towards facing it.
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“When fear stops you from even trying, you've already lost.” Stacy Westfall Click To TweetLinks and Resources:
- Blog post on Stacy wrote about the 4 Square model: Quickly Evaluating Problems with Horses and Riders
The 4 Square Model Stacy uses when approaching horse and rider challenges.
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WHY IS MY HORSE...?
Recently I have really been struggling with my own lack of confidence that has reared its head in the form of fear. For awhile I would disregard it because I was embarrassed but my relationship with my horses really suffered and it only made my fear worse. This made me feel so much better and even gave me a bit of my confidence back! Thank you!
I’ve been riding a Paint for a bit over a year now, and this podcast touched on a few of the issues I as a rider am having with her. I have this intense fear of making mistakes on her and of never improving as a rider with her and just continuing to make her worse and worse instead of better and better. This fear has been holding me back in my box of comfort and affecting how I ride her and it’s starting to affect how I ride the other horses at my barn. By letting this perpetual fear of failure and mistakes control my actions, it feels like I have literally made it nowhere as a rider and nowhere with this horse except 100 steps back from where we started. “Making mistakes is how we learn and grow” is something I tell myself daily but don’t fully accept or believe as being true. I tend to let my mistakes and failures define me as a rider and to an extent, a person. They haunt my every thought and memory and it’s time for that to come to a stop. I really enjoyed this podcast and look forward to listening to your other ones too.
Hi you have captured one of life’s lessons in this podcast. This can apply of course to horses but to so many other things in our lives. One of the greatest accomplishments I feel is when I am afraid to do something with my horse or for that matter something else. It builds and builds inside of me until I’m very anxious about whatever it is I’m going to do. But if I take a leap of faith and try it I feel accomplished. I feel good about what I’ve done. It gives me the courage to try it again, try something else. And I love that what you said is to break it down into small steps because I think that’s what is so important. When you can take each little step and move forward with it you will learn from your mistakes and eventually have success.
I fear my lack of knowledge, that I’m going to let my horses get away with something but not correcting them properly/promptly and creating bad habits, or losing their trust.
A great beginning to your podcasting well done, your voice is clear and the subject chosen a very relevant one to me and many other listeners. I am an older rider with fear baggage, horse bolting as it happened when I was a younger rider. Even though I begin with lots of ground work that darn fear sits there waiting! Thank you Stacy
Stacy, thank you for starting these podcasts!! I especially appreciate the focus on the rider’s mind – I know that is where my challenges originate! As I think through the insights on fear, I can start to break this down to what actions I can take. Anxious to hear the upcoming podcast series for insight & support!!
I really love that you are talking about the emotional and mental side of the rider. I am training my first horse and one of the things that has surprised me the most about the experience has been that the biggest struggles I have had have been my own mental and emotional struggles. A big fear I had to get over was the fear of failure when trying something new, it really held us back. Currently I am really struggling with the fear of damaging the relationship I have with my horse, this actually has the opposite effect and has led to frustration which translates over to anxiety in my horse, which creates a vicious cycle. Also, the constant struggle of feeling like I have something to prove to all of the people who told me I couldn’t do it which can be a blessing and a curse. It is good motivation, but also can make me want perfection to soon. Thank you for providing all of the great free content, it has been one of the things that has helped me in this journey.
Very good introduction to understanding fear with danger and fear that is not related to danger. I enjoyed the podcast
People tell horse horror stories the same way they tell terrible birth stories. I’ve let them go to my head. I’ve had a few small, recoverable, blow ups on the trail but I’m afraid of that horrible moment when something goes horribly wrong and you and/or the horse are in real danger. Has it ever happened to me? no. Is it possible? Sure. Anything is possible. Is it probable? no. But it keeps me from trying new trails, or new challenges because I can imagine a worst case scenario!
I have heard fear defined as a reaction to danger while anxiety is defined as something anticipated, as you said, in your mind, something that might happen. It doesn’t matter how we define it, as you say, it gets in the way. A while ago my horse bucked me off, out of nowhere. I know the expression what happened before what happened happened and I racked my brain. The next day on her croup, right above her tail, all the hair was rubbed off and plasma was weeping. I realized that when she bucked We were in the mountains with lots of deer fly and I am convinced she got stung. I felt helpless to prevent being bucked off again. How can I desensitize bee sting? I am almost 80 and don’t have experience with that kind of huge buck. I love to ride, so I did what I could to try to prevent and to be ready for it again. I still ride around practicing sitting back suddenly, just to get some muscle memory. And I’m appreciating your podcast. We find it reasonable to help our horses face their fears and gain confidence. We should help ourselves do the same thing. Thank you for stepping up and sharing your thoughts. It was excellent.
My fear tends to creep up in little ways. I’m not afraid to ride, I’m not afraid to trailer, I’m not afraid to walk, trot, canter, or even flat out gallop. I am afraid that I may not be able to turn my horse’s bucking tantrum into something productive. Or, that one day that spook might tip me off over onto a rock. I worry that I may not be skilled enough to get my horse to canter solidly, when I think that, it also makes me think about how sometimes he bucks going into the canter . But for me, that doesnt deter me from the positive because now i can redirect my horse’s energy from having a fit and attempting to buck, into a super nice collected canter! I have a bomb a$$ seat and am much more aware of where my body is at all times. I am a tenacious person, with all the grit and try you could ask for,and it serves me well for overcoming obstacles. I like to prove people wrong, even if its me! So, I break down teaching him to how to canter into steps. Steps, that I spent hour after hour googling, reading, and scouring the internet for any and all the videos on the subject. For me at least, a little fear can be a good thing.
I fear getting judged by other riders.
I was a fearless rider when I was younger. Now I tend to hold back more. I have two great horses that I am working. My fear is mis cues or confusing my horses as I work with them. I do not consider myself experienced in riding or training. More of a beginner/ moderate rider.
Yes ♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️So much truth!Fear is a liar.You just can’t get away from it.Fear keeps us from doing the things we know are best for us, what if we fail and people laugh?mistakes happen and we might not win every time, it’s not always a “peak” but it’s always an experience.you don’t win or lose. I have a fear of not being good enough to make this work or do it right with my horse.My one step is giving it a shot and giving it my all….thanks for the podcast♥️God bless!
Stacy, thank you for your differentiation between fear and danger and for breaking things down into the 4 quadrants. It makes so much sense and has helped me to understand how to pursue my goals with my horse. At 54 yrs. old, I am new to riding and to horses altogether. My husband and I started riding lessons in April 2017 and loved it. This June, we purchased horses of our own. We’ve had them just 6 months now, and WOW, what a journey it’s been so far! I realized early on that, although I know nothing about his past, my horse (Thunder) is a better trained horse than I am a rider (Horse’s Mind vs Rider’s Mind) I have a lot to learn, but the first thing on my list was how to avoid getting hurt (Horse’s Body vs Rider’s Body – LOL!) I didn’t want to allow my lack of confidence and fear of getting hurt stop me from doing the things that my husband was okay with doing so I attempted everything he did. The difference is that Thunder has much more “go” than my husband’s horse, and I realize now (by watching your podcast) that I put myself in danger by advancing too quickly with my horse. I’ve watched your videos and learned the importance of good consistent ground training and Thunder does very well with this. The problem is that he tends to ignore my cues when I’m on his back (Horse’s Mind, Rider’s Body?). I’ve feared for my life on two occasions when he wouldn’t slow down and I felt out of control in a dangerous situation. I learned from these experiences and from your videos, podcasts and basically everything I can get ahold of that you put out there. I’m working on improving my riding skills and am gaining confidence by riding Thunder in a safe controlled environment and by setting goals for both of us. Along with consistent ground training, I also “play” with Thunder by teaching him new things, which we both love. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and helping me put things into a good perspective for a safe, fun experience with my lifelong equine friend. I have no doubt that, over time and with the work, Thunder and I will balance our quadrant out, thanks to my new found knowledge (aka Stacy’s Podcast) and I look forward to more!
Well done! Separating Fear from Danger is not easy. I had a bad crash with a young horse, ended up laid up for 2 years. That horse has moved on to a home that is a better fit, but I am still not nearly as confident riding as I was before. I seem to just be waiting for it to happen again.
Hello Stacy!! I was thrown from a horse when I was 15 and it took me another 17 yrs to get back on! I was so scared at first that I paid a lady to just sit on a horse for an hour! hahah! That horse was very old and could hardly move, and I was still scared. For me, I can say that fear did have one positive outcome and that is MOTIVATION. I was very motivated to educate myself on how to do ground work and have riding skills that could somehow minimize my chance of getting hurt again. I have learned so much and now have owned my own horse for 6 yrs. He reminds that you can NEVER stop learning, but that same little fear keeps me plugging away and practicing, and in a way Im thankful for it….I probably will always have some rider fear, but I pray that God always rides with me. I know accidents can happen, but Im having the time of my life playing with my horse! I wouldn’t trade him for the world! Thanks so much for dong this! You are like an inspiration to us all! Love you Stacy and keep up the good work!
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I really appreciated you pointing out that fear doesn’t always equal danger. I am 57 and my body just allow what it did even 20 years ago. I ride a wonderful gelding who takes great care of me on the trail. I know he is a good boy and I still experience fear of getting hurt. Thank you for pointing out even though I fear certain aspects of my horse life I won’t necessarily be in danger!
Thank you so much for the podcasts. After seeing you ride, you need never fear that no one will listen. I am afraid of getting hurt again, and the statement about showing our horses that a fearful situation doesn’t mean a dangerous one exists really hit home. My latest horse is rather fearful and reactive and he is growing to trust me more. He clearly thinks some things are a danger when really he’s just afraid. He looks to me and trusts my judgement. I think I do the same thing, I imagine physical danger, when really I am just afraid. My problem is, who do I turn to to calm my nerves. Do I need to trust him more not to spook and toss me? I’m not sure how to get my confidence back.
I enjoyed your podcast on fear vs danger. I felt that you were speaking directly to me when you talked about not moving forward because you are unsure about the outcome. As you were speaking I realized that I have done this not knowing the reason why. Thankyou for giving everyone the opportunity to listen and learn about themselves. I am going to work on recognizing this behaviour when I find that I am talking myself out of doing something I want to do with my horses.
I enjoyed your podcast on fear vs danger. I hadn’t considered the difference before. Now knowing the difference, makes it easier to face fears. As a perfectionist, I could relate to fear of failure. I’m trying to not have fear of failure, but try and allow myself to have failures.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Absolutely amazing very engaging.
And easy to understand. Helpful for a person that lost has my confidance and trying to get back into riding again and listening to this podcast has really put me in a better mind set for myself and my horse :)with out failure there would be no triumph.
I love your pod casts and this one hit home with me I do have fear when riding but more so for doing something wrong or losing control with my horse and myself falling off and horse running out onto the roadways which we live on a busy highway and do not have to much room to ride but this podcast put some things into perspective so thanks and looking forward to read the others
Fear. Not of the horse but of what (certain) others will think of me. Because yes, horses are dangerous if not handled correctly, and I know too many people who would rather see you fail so they can say, “Yep, told ya so.” I have to let those people go and look for mentors that will encourage me. I am not a born leader so if I want something bad enough I have to find the right people to follow.
Danger. Most, not all, of the dangerous situations I have been in were caused by wrong decisions on my part. Maybe asking my horse to do something he wasn’t prepared for. Arming my self with as much knowledge as possible will not always guarantee a safe outcome but will lessen my chances of getting injured.
Thanks so much Stacy for facing your fear and beginning a podcast 🙂 You know what’s amazing to me? The fact that I believe that people, such as yourself, have no fear! That is such an unfair statement and expectation for me to put on others, but perhaps it’s insightful, as to why I am so tough on myself about fears…I think that I am one of the rare and few to have fears…boy is this eye opening to me! With regard to the equestrian world, I, personally have found that one of my biggest fears was, “What will so-and-so think? What if I fail? Are they watching? Will they laugh at me or talk about me behind my back?” WOW! Were they really my friends then? I quickly decided they were not and I was able to begin to take my own journey with my wonderful horse, allowing myself to personally grow…was it in accordance with someone else’s timeline…probably not, but it was the perfect timeline for us. However, once again, I am human and do have fears about how he will react, when I take him out on trail again…that cinched up western saddle makes him flashback, at this point, it’s behavioral.
Thank you for podcasting! The best way to learn on the go, and like it or not we are on the go quite a lot! Like so many others have mentioned fear can keep us from going forward, learning and becoming more. Recognizing fear and danger and making my way through has been challenging and rewarding. I find the four square method helpful in the process.
Great Presentation
I am stepping out on a leap of faith in expanding the programs offered at Osborne Stables Equine Rescue, Inc. a 501 c 3 non-profit horse rescue/refuge and education center. Adding an equine assisted learning and coaching program for youth and adults. This has been done on a small scale with individuals who have needed help in their current situations.
Fear of failure comes in when searching for adequate funding to keep the projects operational. I won’t let this stop the plans.
The education needed is being acquired by myself and team. Now is the time to push the program further and assist our community in a way that makes real life changes. I know this is possible through these rescued horses.
I needed to hear your podcast.
Thank you, Stacy!
First off, just wanted to say thank you, Stacy, for uploading this podcast and webinars that you do, and for free, especially this time around considering it’s partnered with such a big giveaway.
The biggest fear I can think of stems from a really bad break I had while riding bareback a couple of years ago. Shattered my right ankle in 3 different places. Took over a year to recover.
I don’t blame the horse, it really was my fault but I’ve had a fear of bareback riding ever since. I honestly don’t know how I’ll ever get over it or if it’s something I even feel is worth achieving but I’m glad to have walked away from the experience not holding any fear or anger of horses and I think, the only way I did that was to use it as a learning experience, accepting that it was my fault and maybe to try and pay attention to that voice in my head saying, “THIS IS A BAD IDEA!” next time.
Stacy, I am so glad you have overcome your fear and decided to do your podcasts. You have such a way of explaining things that is so informative, understandable and beneficial all at the same time. It is good to listen and learn from you again. Sometimes when you are afraid to play the game you miss out on the best experiences. I recently was afraid to haul my best horse to the mountains (from Michigan) for fear of his injury or worse. At the last minute this fall I decided that he was the one I wanted out west after planning to take another horse. It was the best decision, he did wonderfully, came through flawless and we trusted each other so well I know it wouldn’t have been the same on another horse. An irreplaceable adventure and I can’t wait to take him again.
The horse shares the same feelings…fear vs danger. We, as the horses leader need to overcome our fear before it leads to danger. Just as the horse needs to overcome his/her fear before danger strikes. When we can work on whatever we are fearful of with yhe horse, the horse works on it to. Outcome…..a win win for horse and rider.
You nailed it. I have fallen and even been hurt yet my greatest fear is of failure.
My fear is doing things wrong to confuse my horse… in addition to a possible fall.
“Letting fear hold us down guarantees we won’t achieve what we want.” This is a big thing for me. I’ve trained my horse completely by myself. I’m very confident in his and my abilities. I have been letting the fear of failure hold me back. I’m so scared of messing up in front of people, that I never give myself a chance to succeed. I’ve been told by clinicians that we are ready to compete, but I just never took that jump to actually do it. I get so nervous in front of people that my hands start shaking and I get short of breath. I’ve decided to not let that hold me back anymore and now I have my first real competition on January 1st 2019. This is helping me keep my confidence up.
I love the four square model! It gets me thinking about where the problems I’m having are arising…my mind? my body? my horse’s body? my horse’s mind? or a combination of these? I’m 59 years old and don’t bounce like I used to, my mortality is forefront in my mind more than it ever used to be so yes, I tend to get fearful more than when I was in my 20s. Facing this, getting thorough this, is important if I want to continue riding with confidence. I’m so happy you are doing the podcasts, I love it! Thank you so much!
Hi Stacy,Thank you so much for giving us these podcasts! I love the way you approach teaching. You make so much sense and are so very helpful to so many of us.
I have fears at times with my horse and also in other areas of my life. I have fears of driving on the freeways…I work on it from time to time. That is my one big fear. With my horse, I fear that I don’t communicate effectively with him all the time. I work on this Everytime I ride him. We are improving, but I am concerned that I don’t put enough consistent rides on him so am not sure that I am in control every ride. That he will take over once in awhile. He has never done anything bad or especially dangerous while riding. So, I do have some comfort in that knowledge. And here is the difference you are talking about in this podcast. Again, Thank you for all you do for us trying to get better with and for our horses!
This couldn’t be better timing, as I’m about to get back on after having my first two falls ever back to back these last two weeks. Fear in the riders mind can turn Into a game of playing “what if”, rather than staying focused and grounded on what is. Distinguishing fear vs danger makes all the difference!
I love that you say if we let fear prevent us from doing things, we’re guaranteed not to have what could have been a good experience. I had to have knee surgery following a serious riding accident a few years ago, and hate to admit that I have some fear now. I’ve found though that the best way to get over it is to just do it! I can either be scared and brave, or just scared. The more I make myself do what I’m scared of, the less scared I am.
I am really impressed with your idea of breaking down a stumbling block(s) using what youve called your 4 square method! Turning the problem into bite sized chunks is an excellent way to overcome the issue that’s holding you or your horse back (sometimes both) from being best.
It occured to me when I was listening to your podcast that your method can be applied to a myriad of situations unrelated to horse and rider! I’ve been following you since shortly after your father passed to Heaven. You were performing with a beautiful black horse, without a bridal and saddle! You didn’t even put a saddle blanket on that beautiful horse! All you did was gently talk to the horse you trained and used a few body signals. I thought: How on Earth did this young woman ever get to a point where the horse came to trust her completely, and actually wanted to do its best for her?!
I remember the first time I sat on a horse. I was about 10 years old. I was scared!!! I’d never been that high up on anything, much less a big animal that moved a little just standing under me! I remember the way the horse smelled, and how wonderful that smell was. I still love the scent horses have!
I eventually lost my fear of being on a horse (who was very gentle), and it dawned on me that a horse and rider is really a symbiotic, two way relationship, though I couldn’t articulate it like that way back then. I actually broke down my fears and ignorance of natural horse behavior into smaller, bite sized chunks. It was nothing as structured as your method, but it worked almost as good as your way. Nobody taught me about horse riding or anything about the relationship you must develop with your horse. My father simply showed me how to saddle the horse, and he led it around the first time I ever sat on her. And he told me to gently pull back on the reins when I wanted to stop. Thats it. I’m grateful that I accidentally came across that first video I saw of you riding that black horse with no saddle or bridle. It was on Facebook, I recall. Thank you!
Have been applying the idea daily of fear vs danger. It is so interesting how often I have been basing my decisions on fear instead of hard facts and inspiration! Please continue the podcasts. I am trying to buy my own horse in the next year and realize that my mentally preparing/learning for this partnership is as important as picking the horse. Love you work! Thank you!
I fear dissatisfaction in my ride. The last time I rode was at such a high level. Now I just think nothing is good enough nothing will satisfy that craving.
Great advise, thank you!!
Possibly use the phrase “physical harm” when discussing danger and the horses body
When I was a kid and riding horses all the time I was fearless. Not now. I’m scared to let the horse take off and just run! I’m thinking I need some riding lessons.
I love this podcast: I had a incident while loping my horse and over 7 years later I still tense up while moving past a trot. I am just enjoying the walk and trot and hope to someday move forward
I enjoyed this podcast. I was severely kicked several years ago, surgery & plates in my arm. The fear was unreal. I would shake walking behind my dead broke horses and picking up any horses’s feet. Two plus years of working through this and I am more confident but still cautious about kicking.
My fear right now is starting a saddle selling business and its not working so I’m afraid I’m doing the wrong thing but don’t know what to do as I get broker by the minute. I want to train more but in winter it is difficult and then I also say to myself and hear others saying “who is she to train horses, what does she know, she’s no expert” and I’m not, but I do know a lot and I’m continually learning and know my limitations. So there, those are my fears.
I just listened to fear vs danger. I found that I can take from this podcast and implement it into the therapy program I run for certain riders. Thank you for your insight and it is always great to continue to learn and hear different perspectives from everyone.
I enjoyed Fear vs Danger. Lots of times I Fear my horse is going to really act up and I could get hurt. Over the years I have educated myself with tools to react when my fear builds so I will not be in a dangerous situation. Stacy you were one of my first great influences watching you win Road to the Horse! Thanks for all you have done for me and my horses. Merry Christmas!
I needed to hear this. I want to ride again, but my fear has stopped me from trying. I hope I can get through this fear and enjoy riding again.
We learn from our mistakes, is something to remember.
I really enjoyed your podcast on fear vs danger as it puts it in proper prospective. Particularily what the difference is. I have recently experienced fear from some of my experiences. I fear getting hurt again, but feel if I can find the right horse for me, I can conquer that “fear” and once again enjoy it. My challenge now has been to find that right horse that I can trust, and then I’ll work on getting past my fear. Thanks for putting information in a way that it makes sense and is actually useful.