Episode 265: Raw reactions vs. rewarded responses

Episode 265_ Raw reactions vs rewarded responses.mp3: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

Episode 265_ Raw reactions vs rewarded responses.mp3: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Speaker1:
If she does paw, she does rear. She does swing her butt around. I also need to remember that these are physical expressions of a mental state. This is her raw reaction without training, without understanding. This is where her mind goes.

Speaker2:
Podcasting from a little cabin on a hill. This is the Stacy Westfall podcast. Stacy's goal is simple to teach you to understand why horses do what they do, as well as the action steps for creating clear, confident communication with your horses.

Speaker1:
Hi, I'm Stacy Westfall and I'm here to help you understand, enjoy and successfully train your own horses. In today's episode, we are going to do a deep dive into raw reactions versus rewarded responses. I'm going to explain this concept using my new yearling as an example, and then I'll explain how it applies to you. But first let's start with the horse. I got a new horse. I know I keep saying it, but that's because I'm in the I got a new horse stage of the relationship, and part of me wants to say that this is my favorite stage. But in reality, I think it's because it's a more raw or obvious stage. So the expressions that young, untrained horses have tend to be like young children. They're very expressive and you get to show them lots of new things where with an older horse like Willow, when she's learning things, it's fun because she can learn so fast, because she's an expert at watching me and my habit patterns. But that also means that everything's really detailed, and it also means that she's holding me very accountable to my habit patterns. Now, technically, that's happening all the time, but it's happening faster and more detailed the more the horse knows you. So the layers or the cycles that happen in the training with that young horse, or the horse that doesn't know you and has very little training. To me, they look more clearly defined because of the raw aspect.

Speaker1:
With my new horse, Ember, I want to begin to teach her to look for my patterns of behavior. And horses are naturally wired already to look for patterns. So a really big part of this is me being consistent inside of that. I also want to reward her for specific emotional states. Now this is where many riders get stuck. I can't fully control creating the emotional state. But I can reward it when it shows up. Here is an example. I want to teach her to stand quietly when tied, but I can't fully control whether or not that's going to happen. I can do things to set her up for success. I can put her through a physical work cycle out in the arena first, and then I can put her in a familiar area like her stall, and I can tie her up there and hope that she wants to stand without rearing, without pawing, without swinging her butt around. But if I tie her up and she does do those things, if she does paw, she does rear, she does swing her butt around. I also need to remember that these are physical expressions of a mental state. This is her raw reaction without training, without understanding. This is where her mind goes. Now again, I can set the situation up to help her be successful, but I can't fully control it. I can, however, choose when to reward her.

Speaker1:
So when she stands still, even for just a moment, I quickly go in and scratch her. Sometimes when she stands still for just a moment, I go in and untie her and go put her back out in her paddock. And this is how I will begin to change her raw reaction into a rewarded response. The challenge that this creates for many people is the discomfort, or the worry that the human experiences when the horse is exploring options. Or we could call it making mistakes, or we could call it doing the things we don't want them to do. So you will need to have an idea of when you might need to change your plan due to a potential safety issue, but that shouldn't come up very often because as soon as you see that potential, I want you to modify your plan to include whatever that is that you see for a potential. Here's an example. The spot that I choose to tie Ember in is rigged up in the stall, so that I could release her from being tied without entering the stall. So I have a rope, a long lunge line that's run up and around a post, and then outside the stall it's tied somewhere. So if something really odd happened, if she reared up high enough and managed to get a leg over the rope, she's tied in a way that that shouldn't happen.

Speaker1:
But if it did, I could untie her without entering the stall. So once you have your safety plans in place, what I tend to see is that oftentimes riders feel conflicted when they're doing something like tying up a horse that is acting impatient, and usually it looks like this. They tie the horse up. They hope the horse stands well so they can reward them. But in reality, the horse starts moving around, pawing, swinging its butt whinnying maybe rearing, and then that causes the human distress. So the human tries to solve the problem. Maybe they go in, maybe they try to pet them, talk with them. Then they leave again. The horse begins moving again. The human gets frustrated. Maybe they go in. Maybe they try correcting them. Maybe they try punishing them. Maybe they try a number of different things that they don't even really necessarily want to do, but they're frustrated with trying to figure out what to do. And this can create a cycle where it seems like the answer's never going to be found. And many times this is being caused by the human being uncomfortable with the horse's displeasure. If you want to look at it like that, or with the horse's exploration of the options. Now, mind you, we've already solved for the safety issues, so safety really isn't the issue here. If you think it is, make the changes that you need to to support the horse.

Speaker1:
Tying or lunging or riding often involves cycles like this, where the horse's physical response is one thing we can observe, but there's also their mental state. Sometimes I see people accidentally rewarding a horse's behavior without considering the thinking process the horse is having. So for some people, they'll tie their horse up, and when they go to untie them, it's good enough if the horse is just still in the same location, so maybe they might untie them while they're pawing or while they're swinging around because the human's afraid or really uncomfortable with the horse, or they just think it's not a big deal because the horse is still there. They didn't pull back. They didn't break anything. It must be working. And this is another lost opportunity. Because if you can begin to see the mindset so you can reward both still being there, still being tied, the physical correct response of still being there. But if you can also layer that with standing quietly, now you're beginning to train not only the physical response of the very basic not breaking something and leaving. Now you're starting to reward staying there and standing quietly. So let's go back to my example with my yearling. First I figure out how to make it the safest place possible. Then I put her through a work cycle out in the arena, so that she's more likely not to be fresh and full of herself.

Speaker1:
Then I take her in and I tie her up, and I walk out, and I don't try to keep her, quote unquote happy. Then I watch her and I reward her for specific choices that she makes. And horses are smart. They are really good at detecting patterns, so they pick up on this really quickly. And this is how you can begin to train physical and mental states. When I see her pause for just a moment, even if she pauses just to prick her ears up to look around and listen, I walk in and I scratch her because technically she's standing still and she's not doing one of the bigger things that she's been doing, which would be pawing, swinging around and rearing. Then I walk out again, and she's very likely to go back into some sort of state of exploration, of moving around, of pawing, of popping up and down, hopping. That's what she's doing. They go back into this exploration stage, and then I wait again until she stands still again. And it's amazing how quickly they begin to catch on to this. Once she catches on to this in the stall which she already has, then I will eventually begin progressing this once she has the concept in this easier location. Then when I start to do is I start to move the horse to a different stall and I'll go through the cycle as many times as it takes with her in a new location, until she stands quietly.

Speaker1:
Now, mind you, I'm not looking for perfection. I'm looking for – she's pretty good. B minus work. She stands pretty good. She might go through a cycle of moving around, pawing or doing something, but I want to see that over time that is diminishing and getting better and better in the first location. Then when I move to the second location, I expect there to be a little bit of a difference. Hopefully, if she has been internalizing the ideas, she actually won't spike as high as she did in the first location. Then I'll move to another location at my place that might be a tie stall. When she gets okay there, B minus work, then I'll move to another location. So that could be a tie spot out in a run in shed, or a high line in the woods, or loading her into the horse trailer and having her stand there. Eventually, I'll move this same theory to other places that might be hauling to a friend's house and tying their, hauling to a show, tying in the stall there. So the whole time that I'm doing this, the same rules are going to apply. I'm going to set her up for a safe experience. I'm going to prep her by putting her through a work cycle. I'm going to tie her, and then I'm going to watch.

Speaker1:
And when she is improved, I'm going to go in and reward her. Either scratch her, pet her, untie her something to give her feedback that this is what I want, and then I'm probably going to do the cycle again even that same day. It is not uncommon for me to do these cycles three, four and five times in the same day because the horses can see your pattern even faster, and they'll see that mental pattern even faster when they get a chance to explore and then confirm by standing still. Explore and then confirm by standing still. However, all of this requires you to be aware of your raw reactions versus your intentional responses. I find it fascinating to know that horses leave the work session that we have today, and they go and think about what happened. And I know this is true because they come out the next day and they reflect what they've been thinking about. This is the same skill that you need to practice by intentionally thinking about the cycles that you're choosing, and this is actually how a professional trainer can make fast progress, because professionals get really good at detecting patterns. So I train with this idea in mind. I watch the horse's responses, which like tying Ember up. At first she just guessing and experimenting, and then she's starting to see the pattern. And then I continue doing that same thing the next day so that I can see how she interpreted it.

Speaker1:
I expect to see the horse's interpretation of the lesson show up the next day even stronger. And then I take what they took from the lesson, and I continue to clarify it. Maybe they correctly detected one piece of the pattern. Maybe they do hesitate and look at you to stand still for you to come in and give them a scratch. But maybe they also detected a different piece of the pattern that you'll have to address. So for Ember, by the time we hit day five, she was like, what if I just don't lead into the stall? She did not have that issue at first, but then when she figured out she was going to be tied up in there on and off for the next hour, she decided maybe I just won't enter the stall at all. This was her question. So in the process, even when it's working, the horse will be exploring all the options around that. And horses don't always have perfect logic. They are really good at detecting patterns, but they can also get into thought loops that are not helpful to them. Even I mentioned in the last podcast that we installed automatic waterers and with a little bit of help, all the other horses figured out the waters pretty quickly. And then there was Presto, and Presto was skeptical at first, and then when he did drink out of it, he was slow and he was cautious, like he was sneaking up on it and drinking with me, guiding him.

Speaker1:
And he got a little bit better the next day, and he got a little bit better the next day. And right about the time that I thought, this is great. He's on track much slower than the other horses, but he's on the same track, just at a much slower pace. Then it suddenly got worse, and when I stepped back and looked at his perception of what was happening, I was able to observe that he would press down on the paddle. And in the middle of drinking, he would jerk his head up and jump away, and when he jerked his head up and jumped away, the paddle, which is spring loaded, would spring back up, and when the paddle would spring back up, it would confirm his idea that the water was about to make a noise. So follow along with this again. He's pressing down on the paddle, and then in the middle of drinking, he's leaping away, which is causing the paddle to spring back up because he's jerking his head away from it quickly. And then he's got the idea in his head that, see, I thought that thing was going to scare me. And there it did. So he wasn't exactly wrong, but he also was creating the very problem. And it's moments like this where it's very possible to have the thought, this horse is not capable of learning how to use this automatic waterer, when really it was just another step to work through a step that none of the other horses went through.

Speaker1:
So even though his raw reaction wasn't day one. I want you to hear that I could see the element of reacting versus responding. This is how I know Presto is having an emotional reaction. And that's different than making a thoughtful choice. And whenever I see a horse in a reactive state, I like to think there's a horse that needs some guidance or support. So I simply put a halter on him, took him over and pressed the paddle down, released it quickly, and basically desensitized him to that sound and to that idea happening, even though he'd already been exposed to it for several days before this. Once he got that in his head, he needed a little help getting out of that cycle. And I have to tell you, I was so proud of him. This morning, while I was filling hay bags, I glanced out and I saw him drinking all by himself. No other horses around, so it's possible once I helped him slow down his thinking and become more intentional. That is the concept that I want you to think about when you are evaluating your own responses. If you feel reactive, then there's a really great chance that you're not being intentional and you could become like Presto! Where you're causing the very thing that's scaring you.

Speaker1:
Remember, training cycles can be viewed as physical cycles alone, but the best training cycles are also mental cycles, where you get to see the horse's thought pattern expressed through physical actions. And again, I find it fascinating to know that horses spend time in between sessions thinking about what happened. This means that the horses are doing what I talked about back in episode 187, the backwards cycle of Learning after, during, and before horses. Spend time thinking about the process after the session is over. That means they look back at what you did with them and they detect your patterns. And if you watch, you can actually see them gathering information all the time. Here's another example of that. I turned Ember out with Presto and another horse, and at first she was pretty bold around both of them. She wasn't trying to be mean, they weren't trying to be mean. But when she bounced around and asked about moving them, they were like, no, I'm not moving. And when they refuse to move and stood their ground, she became more cautious around them because they made it clear, we're not moving for you. Then when I walked out into this herd to catch her, she wasn't quite sure what to make of it. I walked up to her and she's watching me and she's watching them.

Speaker1:
And she could see that the rules changed because as I walked towards her, I also told the other horses to stay back. So she realized that Presto was no longer behaving the same way. When I was in the pasture the first day, it was a mild difference that you could see. She was still trying to decide if she should jump away from Presto when near me, but by the second time she was fascinated. I even opened up the gate. Presto and the other horse were standing closer to the gate, and Ember was further back, and she began creeping forward, looking at me and looking at both of them, and I could see from her walking slowly straight towards me, glancing at both horses that she was trying to work out. Why does this work differently when Stacy's in the pasture? This to me is a sign that she's thinking and she's exploring, but she's also not reacting. If she was reacting inside of this, she would be thinking fast and probably moving fast. She might be bolting around, jumping and guessing, but what I'm seeing is that she's in a low gear in her movements and that her thinking is intentional and not reactive. This is a reflection of the overall time that we are spending together, and how I am expecting her to respond to me when I'm leading her in and out of the pasture during the training sessions, when I'm lunging her and I'm introducing her to different objects and different requirements.

Speaker1:
And when I'm tying her, this is all playing a part in making her think and behave more intentionally and less reactively when she's around me. Now let's talk about you doing this for you. It's the end of the year, and I highly encourage you to look back at 2023. And when I ask you to do that. Look at where your mind will likely go. It's very common for your mind to go to. What did I do? Where did I go? What did I buy? Maybe. What did I sell? That's my accountant. He's trained me to think about these things. But notice that you tend to look at the physical things. How much time do you spend looking back at the prior year and reflecting on your thought cycles, whether you were doing things because you were being raw and reactive, or whether you were being intentional with your thinking? Do you know your own raw reaction? Default thinking habit? I actually shared one of mine in last week's episode in detail when I was outlining the physical actions, but then also layering in my thinking, my awareness of my prior thinking, and my thinking around what I was choosing to do. As I walked you through that entire experience in the previous podcast, I would encourage you to look back at some of the things that you did or didn't do, but wish you would have back in 2023.

Speaker1:
When you look back at these physical events that did or didn't happen, look for your thought patterns. Notice that when you're doing this, you're still going to need to remember the physical action that you took or the physical actions you didn't take because of your thought cycles. These might include things that you did or didn't do with your horse, or you could do this on any area of your life, because what you're looking for are patterns in your thinking. And I actually like to think about the things I see my horses do and ask myself where I might be doing this. Also, it would sound like this when I see Ember is impatient while tied. Where do I do that in my life? When Presto spooks himself with the way that he releases the paddle of the automatic waterer. Is there some way that I do something similar to me? When I'm leading Ember in from the pasture, and I see her trying to figure out why and how the rules change as the combination of herd members changes. Do I see that in my own human herd dynamics? I've said it before and I'll say it again I love learning life lessons through horses, and I hope this episode gave you a glimpse into several ways that you can do that. Thanks for listening and I'll talk to you again in the next episode.

Speaker2:
If you enjoy listening to Stacy's podcast, please visit Stacy Westfall.com for articles, videos and tips to help you and your horse succeed.

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