Episode 263-Messy Middle or normal process: reducing frustration and increasing fun

In this episode, four students join me, and we discuss the breakthroughs and light bulb moments they have had while participating in The Resourceful Rider Program.

Topics include:

  • Mutual respect and kindness
  • Reducing overwhelm
  • We discuss normalizing challenges aka the messy middle
  • Increasing confidence by having a plan
  • The power of focus
  • Pausing before believing the first thought you have
  • Considering your horse’s point of view
  • Increasing enjoyment while training your own horse

By hearing from different perspectives, the concepts shared might land differently for you, and inspire you to recognize your horse’s and your own capabilities.

Episode 263_ Messy Middle…or normal process_ reducing frustration and increasing fun.mp3: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

Episode 263_ Messy Middle…or normal process_ reducing frustration and increasing fun.mp3: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Laura:
I had wanted to have fun because I had a rather romantic view of riding a horse, and so I was frustrated that I wasn't having fun.

Jan:
It's really helped with my confidence because I was dealing with some confidence issues. It's helped me focus. It's helped my horse focus.

Nadia:
I don't believe what my mind offers me right away anymore. I look more thoroughly and I give it more thought, and that has made me more benevolent towards my horse.

Donna:
Everything, everything that we do in the structured area is utilized out there in the real world.

Announcer:
Podcasting from a little cabin on a hill. This is the Stacy Westfall podcast. Stacy's goal is simple to teach you to understand why horses do what they do, as well as the action steps for creating clear, confident communication with your horses.

Stacy Westfall:
Hi, I'm Stacy Westfall and I'm here to help you understand, enjoy, and successfully train your own horses. I've been interviewing students, and today you'll meet the final four for this round of interviews. We cover a lot of topics, but two stand out to me. One is how a couple of the riders describe how they discovered more joy. The way that they describe it is revealing. And the other thing that stands out to me is later in the podcast, when we were discussing structure and some responded, that structure brought a sense of purpose and focus, while another had a sense of freedom. If you're listening to this podcast when it releases, there's still time to join the Resourceful Rider program before it closes. If you're listening after it's closed, go over to my website and put your name on the waitlist so you'll be notified next time the program opens up. Why might you want to join? Well, instead of me answering that question, I will let these four ladies go ahead and tell you. Thank you for joining me today. Could you introduce yourselves and give us a little bit of background about you and your horses?

Laura:
Well, I'll go ahead and start because I'm kind of a beginner status, and I think that might be a good place to start. My name is Laura. I'm from Idaho and I have one horse, but it's my second horse, and my background experience is that I only started dealing with horses about five years ago now. Before I had a horse, I started taking lessons, and I've never, never been. I didn't grow up around horses, so this is really a very new experience. And even after five years, I feel like it's very new to me still.

Jan:
I'm Jan and I'm from Ontario, Canada. I have one horse, Annie, and I've owned Annie for 11 years. I got her when she was six. She's a quarter horse. I had a horse before for like 30 years when I got that horse when I was a teenager. But before I got Annie, I'd had about a ten year break from horses. That's where I am right now.

Donna:
I am Donna, I'm from New Mexico. Right now I have one horse that I'm working with. My background is having grown up with livestock, with cattle and horses, raising and training my own horses, and through the years I've had a lot of experience. Fun, fun stuff. Working with cattle and also mountain riding and camping and packing. Endurance riding. I'm in my 70s so there's a lot of time to get a lot done in there, and it's been a lot of fun.

Nadia:
My name is Nadia. I'm from Germany. I own one horse. He is a Quarter Horse gelding. I've been around horses for like 20, 25 years, and I started in a classical German dressage riding school, which I didn't particularly like. And so I ended up doing more horsemanship, kind of riding. And we're basically right now doing sort of a Western Dressage thing. And my goal is to educate and, well, keep him healthy and actually have fun doing that.

Stacy Westfall:
Well thank you. Now I want to go around, and it's always interesting for me to hear what brought you into the program. So I'm curious, was there something that you were struggling with, or was there something you were looking to achieve or both when you signed up for the program?

Donna:
Well, I will say that it was my sister Anne, who was a Resourceful Rider also who got me into the program and of course, who has not heard of Stacy Westfall. And she would occasionally send me to one of your podcasts and I'd go, oh wow, I sure wish I could train with Stacy Westfall. Wouldn't that be wonderful? Anne showed me about your program with the steering course. And I'm always looking to enhance what I know about horses, about anything, so I wanted to find out what I didn't know, that I didn't know, and I was very eager to join. And that's how I found out about it and got started.

Jan:
I met you, Stacy. Oh, it must have been 9 or 10 years ago. You were in Ontario, Canada at Can-Am, and you did some demonstrations and some clinics there. And I just loved your way of explaining things and and demonstrating things. So I was struggling with, with my horse. I had been listening to your podcasts, and I did get one of your CDs or DVDs, I guess, at, at the Can-Am. So when you offered this course, I didn't even have to hesitate. I just jumped in right away. And that was when you very first offered it. And that was the best decision I ever made.

Laura:
I also came because I had been researching other sources to learn about horses and found you through your podcast, and I had previously purchased your trailer loading, and that helped me immensely. In fact, I now impress even the instructor that I see sometimes in person with my trailer loading. Because my horse will go in, sometimes without me even touching her. So yeah. And then as far as the the course doing online, because I already had that experience and I already knew that I could learn well from you, but it was really the zoom calls that was the clincher deal for me to be able to get some input when I had questions.

Nadia:
So I've actually also got hooked to the program via the podcast. I really like your holistic view and think you have a very interesting take on things to different problems. That is very different to my own perspective. And so I was like, that is very interesting and I think I could learn a lot. And over here we have a severe lack of well-educated people who are able to instruct you as a rider, at least in the world, I want to write in. And so I was hooked and I signed up.

Stacy Westfall:
Before you joined, you would have heard me talking about the program. Now that you're inside the program, how would you go back and explain it to yourself?

Donna:
To me, I would, I would call it. A whole human, whole horse experience. You know meaning when. Think of the whole human, whole horse, body, mind and spirit. With our body. You know, we're always talking about fitness, whether it's our fitness or the horse's fitness. And also, I think with the body also comes that muscle memory. We might have to rehabilitate both our body and our our muscle memory and then rehab it, get new habits. I know often when we look at reviews of videos with you, you talk about, so why do you think you're doing that? And somebody says and laughs muscle memory, you know. So we have to learn that that's our body and with our mind. One of the best things is that you have encouraged us to think for ourselves, and we can pass that on to our horses and our horses learn to think for themselves, because the systems and the reward systems that you talk about with us causes them to have to think too. Like when you say to get the horse to to lower their head, you know, and we pull the rein back and the horse just wiggles their little head around, and then finally they lower and come to vertical and they figured that out themselves. So you've really helped us work on our mindset. That mindset mastery. That's probably the biggest where we have to think about mutual respect and kindness and understanding why we do the things that we do. And it helps us to understand why is that horse doing the thing that he does. That mindset mastery is really the clincher for me anyhow. But I would call it the whole horse, whole human experience.

Stacy Westfall:
That resonates with the idea that I talk about on the podcast all the time about rider's mind, rider's body, horse's mind, horse's body just said another way.

Donna:
Absolutely. We don't get to blame the horse for everything.

Laura:
But piggybacking off of that, for me, part of the frustration, even though the people I had had lessons from, had been very patient, they they spoke horse in a way that I didn't understand. I was having trouble translating and understanding how to apply it to my horse, and partly because I didn't understand the horse's language very well. But you had a way of explaining those things, that it was no longer a foreign language to me. And then because of that, I could integrate things that I know about myself that that were frustrating me, that I knew, like, for instance, I'm an intense person and you're saying you can't fake it with the horse. And I'm thinking, well, that's not good because I am who I am. And so if I'm going to be intense, how do I how do I communicate with the horse in a way that that still works? And so it really because you translated horse in in both ways, that were still true to the communication and the horse and what it was doing, but it also helped me then further my understanding by knowing how to ask questions.

Stacy Westfall:
Is there one specific example you could give?

Laura:
Um, probably the one that jumps right to mind is when you probably recall, I had a really windy day with the horse and I was worried, like, when do I get off the horse? Because I don't want to teach the horse that when she's wild, I get off. And so I knew some of that. And then you said, just get off a lot, period. And I was like, oh, well, that's so simple. And I've done that ever since. And now getting off and on is just no stress whatsoever. And I've gotten physically stronger for getting off and on.

Stacy Westfall:
Great example.

Jan:
I like to explain how it's broken down into little pieces. I really love the fact that when you start the course, it's just broken down into small sections. And when you're discussing one section. Not only do you show or explain how to do a certain exercise. But you say why and what the side effects, good or bad, of doing something a certain way can be. And that breaking down of of the lessons is. It's something that really helps me understand the different to different levels.

Nadia:
When I think about the program and what I mostly benefit from, I think it is that it has turned me into like a problem solver. I've become sort of a detective and I see what's going on. And before the program, I was pretty clueless. I maybe I realized what was going on, but I was like, and how can I have that? And now I've become way more aware of the different aspects of riding, of my horse's mental state, my mental state, my our emotions, our physical capabilities. And that somehow makes it more easy to solve problems and to come up with my own ideas. So I actually have become more independent and more capable as a rider, but also as a horse trainer. And I think that's pretty cool.

Stacy Westfall:
Inside of the program, you have access to what you could look at as the library of the training of the horse, the steering, the collection, the whoa. Then you also have the mindset mastery and the zoom calls. And a big piece of the whole program is learning to self evaluate. And then for those who choose to send in videos, also getting evaluated on zoom calls. Zoom calls do more than just evaluations. But one key aspect is that evaluation. So how has learning to evaluate or watching other people's evaluations, whether you're talking about learning, evaluating for your own self at home, or whether you're watching a zoom call and practicing the skill of evaluating because you're watching me do that. How has learning to evaluate impacted you as a writer?

Jan:
It's impacted me greatly. I find now that I've been in the course for a while, I probably don't send in as many videos as I used to, but I do video a lot, and I love being able to watch that video and evaluate it and then go back and try something different and then evaluate it again. And it's only kind of when I get unsure or a little bit stuck, then I'll send the video in and discuss it with you, and you can point out things and tell me which direction to go from there. And then when we're watching another rider on our zoom calls, sometimes I will sit there and I'll try to evaluate myself, and then I'll see if my evaluation lines up with your evaluation, just to see you know, how well I'm doing at it. So it's it's a great tool. It's a, it's a great tool that will always have. Yeah. It's a super tool I love it.

Donna:
I've only sent in one video because I'm chicken and it's a lot of work to set it up for me. But I have found it amazing when I do take a video of myself and think I was doing something and watch the video and find out it was totally not being done that way. So, you know, like hands too high. I think my hands are really low down here by my knees. And I look at it and it looks like they're up by my ears. So yeah, looking at my own videos is surprising. Going, huh? That wasn't what I thought I was doing. So that's been very helpful.

Laura:
Watching you evaluate other people's videos where it's not overwhelming. You're not trying to make everything perfect all at once. You're working on a particular thing and leading them from where they are. And that's been very helpful, both in understanding what's going on and in evaluating my own writing and my own videos.

Stacy Westfall:
You know I get questions from people who are coming to horses later in life, and they'll email in and they'll ask about the course and about whether or not they should be a part of it. So can you speak just a little bit more to what you're getting from watching the evaluations, Laura?

Laura:
Well, to be honest. So I told you before when we were first talking that because I video myself for my blog, doing that part at first was not overwhelming because I know all of that. And so sending it in and watching it the first couple of times wasn't a big deal. But then I did start to feel a little intimidated because other people seem so far ahead of me. But I just have to emphasize that I know that's totally me. That's not anything put into the group by any of the other members or you at all. Because every time I ask a question or the few times that I bring my own video, you just meet me where I'm at. So you not only evaluate my videos in a very encouraging way, helping me progress in measurable ways and always feel encouraged. But when I deal then with my own sense of intimidation, I always learn from everybody else's videos. There's just something about watching. Well, we all know you watch somebody who's doing something better. You learn if you can get over that sense of intimidation.

Stacy Westfall:
It's also interesting because, as Jan mentioned, I think the amount of feedback needed comes and goes more than people would anticipate when they're outside of the program and they're signing up, because you do get so much from watching that there's not necessarily the need. If you're watching your own video and you're seeing where your next step is, you almost don't need me to tell you where your next step is. If it's already clear to you because you've been watching others, you've been watching your own videos, and you know what's there. And so sometimes I think people. Are under the impression that they have to send in a certain number of videos to get the benefit, and I don't find that that's been true over the years that the course has been going on. I think it's more so when you get to the point where you're like, I don't know if I want to call it a stuck moment, but there's this. If you get to a point where you desire that feedback, it is very wise of you to recognize. Am I avoiding this because of something that I could take to the mindset mastery side, or do I not actually need it right now because I actually already have enough information to be working on?

Laura:
Yeah. And there's definitely a value in seeing so many different people on so many different horses. That is very useful to me.

Nadia:
Actually surprised me. The fact that I was like expecting to have my video reviewed like once a month or maybe every two months. And like right now, I think I end up submitting a video like once every 3 or 4 months. And it's it's really sufficient. It's not only because you, you see the others riding and you listen to the calls and get a lot of information, but just develop an eye like and and when riding, it's really interesting because my awareness has become so much better. I get off my horse and even though, for instance, I wanted to do sideways or lateral movements and it didn't work out the way it was supposed to, I still find little moments that are really liked or like little revelations, like, wasn't it my shoulder? I think I kept it up all the time. Or like, I think I'm pretty sure that my stirups were not evenly weighted. And this is why he wouldn't do this or do that. And so kind of I'm able to help myself. Not all the time, I mean, and sometimes I really need your assessment as in, yes, you are on the right track or no, you need to change this or that. But apart from that, it's just like smooth riding and yeah, that's nice.

Stacy Westfall:
I love hearing that, because one of the things I really believed when I was creating this was that a lot of times people have questions. They just need a little bit more information and then it just unlocks the whole next level for them. Thank you for sharing all that.

Donna:
Well, you know, I wanted to add back on the other subject. Actually, my sister Anne and I were talking about how and this is more towards something that Laura said about feeling don't know if you use the word intimidated Laura or not, but but my sister Anne and I were were talking and we've been in the program for three years now. And. We were talking about how much we really like having classmates of varying entry points, because it somehow makes us go back and think I guess more purely. Don't know if that would be the way to describe it, but it's important to have these different levels of entry point. That's what I'm trying to say.

Laura:
That's encouraging to hear.

Donna:
Yeah. Good. Please don't stop.

Nadia:
I. Yeah, I wanted to say something about the four square model, but I think I have a different take on it. It helped me to be more positive or even neutral when when reviewing or viewing my rides. So, for instance, regarding the horse's body, one light bulb moment for me was he needs to learn the new stuff too. He needs to adapt. He needs to build up muscle. So even if I get the eighth right, and even if I position my body right in the right way, he still might not get it because his body needs to be trained. And on the mental side, the horses, horses, mind your sentence like your horse has questions, has helped me a lot to put a different angle on things and not to get angry so easily, or not to get frustrated and don't see his behavior as sort of disobedience, but just as questions. And that has helped. That was really helpful. And as in, rider body, the rider's body part, it's the same as like the horse. I also need to train different muscles and maybe sit differently on a horse and get used to the new movements and get coordinated. So there's a lot of room for improvement. Plus, rider's mind, um, I really have a tricky brain and with a lot of strong beliefs, and I've kind of learned to to control that more and to be, yeah, to be actually to be more in control of my own thoughts and not to believe in every little idea that my brain is sending to me. And altogether that has enabled me to be more positive, be more constructive, and even become better, like horse person and better human for my horse.

Stacy Westfall:
How was your experience of your horse different now? Because of that?

Nadia:
It has changed a lot because we are actually having fun now. Before I had my ideas and my goals and my plans, but I felt often frustrated and I didn't know how to go on. And I kind of was. It wasn't. I had high goals, high expectations, high experience, expectation, but it just didn't seem to make it work. And then I got frustrated and I kind of fell down. And that has changed because right now, yeah, we are having fun. I see that I'm able to achieve things and that has turned my, my, my confidence is on a whole new level. I mean, not being arrogant, but just being knowing that you can do stuff and you can, you can that is that is pretty big. And so I actually I feel joy and even pride and it's pretty funny because I didn't expect to feel that way. I was pretty, pretty, ah my goal, feeling wise, was I really would like to be a good horse person. I really would like to be, yeah, able to ride in a certain way. But all that kind, yeah, fun and joy and even happiness. It didn't even occur to me that those were emotions you could feel being around horses. And so it kind of opened up a whole new stream of ideas and feelings.

Laura:
I can add to that that having fun now was also in my notes. I had wanted to have fun because I had a rather romantic view of riding a horse, and so I was frustrated that I wasn't having fun. But just in the last few months, I've noticed that I'm having fun, and partly it's because I know what to do in any given circumstance. I. It's not that I'm always doing something perfect, but I have an idea. I have an arsenal of how to respond. And it's not that the horse has to act a certain way, it's that I have to have options for what to do when the horse does certain things.

Jan:
I think I've noticed. I think this goes back to the mindset mastery idea. It's the messy middle. I guess I thought I was getting a little frustrated because I was kind of, you know, just moving along so slowly. Or maybe I didn't think I was going forward. But when I understood about the the messy middle and I kind of learned to embrace it instead of feel negative about it. And I think once you realize that, you can see more clearly the advances that you're making or when you're plateauing, or maybe you're going backwards a little bit, it's all okay. It's all okay. It's just part of the journey and you really want to enjoy that journey. And I think that's really impacted me. And the fact that because we are improving, like I was having some confidence issues and not trusting my horse because she's pretty reactive. So once I got in this area, I could relax more. I'm really enjoying the journey, and I'm enjoying the messy middle that we talk about the messy middle a lot, right? So that's that's a good thing.

Nadia:
I can second that. The messy middle has been huge for me as well because I always thought like that the the end product must look like the process and the messy middle or Stacy taught me that it's not the case that you are allowed to wade through the messy middle without it looking pretty. That it can be. Yeah, not as nice as you would like to have it, but you will come through. And in the end it is just what you wanted it to be.

Donna:
When think on the last podcast, Heather said it pretty well when she was describing how she would teach her horse something and it broke something else. But then she went on to say that when you go back to try to figure out, okay, why is the other thing broken now? You find out that you get the results much quicker after you go through that messiness.

Laura:
For me. One of the things that I just recently was reminded of is that when you're going through what you're calling the messy middle and you don't necessarily what's going know what's going to happen next. Sometimes you discover things. That you wouldn't have discovered otherwise, because there's just room for that to happen in the messy middle. So, for instance, in one of my lessons with another instructor, we were doing some polls at right angles, diagonals for the horse to go through. But because the the rider's mind rider's body, when we were trotting over the poles and my horse broke out into a gallop or lope or whatever you want, I mean, it's not like I was racing off for the first time. For me, it's the first time I've galloped in five years. The last time was on a lesson horse for like two minutes and I bruised my tailbone. So this was a big deal. But in this messy middle here, my horse started to gallop and I just laughed. Because even though it wasn't what she was supposed to be doing, it was it was still a joyful experience. And then she actually got better at trotting. But then I knew I could gallop.

Stacy Westfall:
And what's so interesting for me, when I was talking about the messy middle, I did it from two different angles because there's definitely times that I've had the experience in life of feeling like I'm in the messy middle, and I wanted to give words to it for what people are experiencing. And yet, being further down the road, I can actually see that much of it is just the normal process.

Laura:
Right?

Stacy Westfall:
And so it's normalizing that the normal process isn't as clean as what you might imagine my process of training Roxy looked like. In your mind you see the finished product that I produce. And in most people's minds we like to have that image that it must all work for them. And then I'm struggling. Or I love to go back to the idea because I have three children. So when you're in the middle of childbirth or you're in the middle of the messy middle with your horse, when you're in the messy middle of something, you're not necessarily thinking, this is exactly what it should be like. You're thinking, this must be wildly off track. And yet, if you trained hundreds of horses, you would be like, this is exactly how it happens.

Jan:
But it's real nice to have a name for it.

Stacy Westfall:
Yes.

Jan:
It's really nice to say, oh, that's okay. I'm just in the messy middle.

Stacy Westfall:
Yes. And I have children and I've used that phrase there. And I have a now almost not a puppy, and I've used that a long time. And so it works in many areas of life knowing that, that it's normal to have messy times.

Jan:
Yeah.

Donna:
This whole program works for all areas of life.

Jan:
Yes it does.

Stacy Westfall:
Has the program changed the way that you interpret your horse's behavior?

Laura:
Oh, absolutely, because I view her as experiencing the world around her instead of as somebody that's constantly trying to frustrate me. (laughter) So I can let her experience the world and respond to that without feeling like it's a constant battle.

Jan:
Yeah, and I kind of agree with that. And also, during the Mindset Mastery section of the program, you learn to be more curious. Well, I wonder why she did that. You don't think, darn, you know, she did this or she did that. You're more curious and you're more curious to look into the why and and to be more positive going forward.

Nadia:
I don't believe what my mind offers me right away anymore. I look more thoroughly and I give it more thought, and that has made me more benevolent towards my horse. And again, you're phrasing like your horse is having questions helped me a lot too, to have a different view. And for me, I said he has questions. So what he needs is answers and not necessarily corrections. And so I think I've become like a more friendlier person towards him.

Donna:
I think with my current horse Hero, it's really helped me to allow him to be himself. I've always had hotter horses that could take me on great adventures, from sunrise till sometimes close to midnight, through the mountains and all over the place exploring. This boy is much more conservative with his energy, and it's it was quite frustrating for me. But then I realized at this stage in my life, I'm probably supposed to be slowing down as well. So he's helping me with that. But but this course has really helped me look at at him and not expect him to be my old horse that died of old age just back in April, where we went all over an adventure. So I'm learning to enjoy him for who he is.

Stacy Westfall:
Has the program changed the structure of your work sessions with your horse?

Donna:
Well, I'll say for me, yes, because there is a structure. I'm not, I'm not a person that really likes structure or routine. I like to just go out there and see what happens. So I have really had to back off. And we've learned patterns and we've learned to have some routines, and then we go out there and see what happens. But yes, that's what I would say. There is structure and there is routine. We do the patterns and they're really great. They're really, really helpful. But I still have to make myself do it. I used to have to make myself go to school when I was a kid, because there was too much structure, too much routine. So thank you, Stacy. You've made me. You've made me have to have structure and routine and patterns and things to do.

Jan:
Yeah, and I agree with that. I'll just add to Donna's there that the patterns helped me with a plan. When I go out to ride. I'm going to work on such and such today, and I know what pattern I need to have to to work on that. And then it's kind of the same thing when we've done our patterns, when we when we're finished that part of the riding, then we can go for a little hack or, or whatever. But yeah, I go out with I go out with a purpose, I go out with a plan, and it usually involves one of the patterns.

Stacy Westfall:
When you do the pattern and then you go out for the having fun time. Are you guys seeing the techniques carry over from the pattern into your regular riding?

Donna:
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And and and I continue to do the patterns. There's a, there particular areas where we'll do along the wall with this big old pile of rocks there makes a wall. But everything, everything that we do in the structured area is utilized out there in the real world. Everything just side passing, I mean, you get into some sticky deadfall or something like that in the trees, and you might just have to move sideways or, or turn on the haunches because you can't go to the right, you can't go to the left, you can't go forward. You've got to turn around for whatever. Everything is used out there in the real world.

Laura:
It's interesting to hear it from that perspective because I tend to be a regimented person. So on one hand, I did need the the specifics for for what to provide for the horse, to help the horse learn. But at the same time as I see you present it, in or how to modify it in a sense, in the zoom calls and things like that, where it's not it's not an exact science and it's not boot camp. So there can be a lot more flexibility in how you approach it. So you have helped me be more flexible in how I approach the regimented part that's available.

Nadia:
So I don't like repetition. I think it's pretty boring. And I also know that repetition is a huge thing in horse training. And the patterns kind of help me to to use it in my training. I used to just be riding around and trying things. For example, I was riding a circle and when he drifted over the shoulder, I was like, well, okay, let's do sideways from here. And so he never learned that he wasn't supposed to drift out over the shoulder. And just sticking to the pattern gives me a clearer focus. And so he actually has something he can follow and he he understands better. And I also think that riding patterns or repetitions in some way is actually the basis to be able to evaluate something without pattern. I couldn't say like, is he drifting over his shoulder? Has it become better? Has it improved, or does he still do it? Or coming around this corner, is my right hip still in the right position or is there has the problem developed and like doing things over and over again and also changes or gives me the opportunity to focus on different things like on the horse, on my body, on my thoughts. Am I looking where we are going? What does my left hand doing? How do I feel? How do I breathe? And repetition has opened up so many new angles and new aspects of writing. And it's it is pretty magical. And I really didn't like it at first, but I made myself do it and now it's opened up like a whole new turn, it's changed everything.

Laura:
From the start, I've learned to compare it to, I've played the flute for 50 years, and I learned that you have to learn all the scales. You have to memorize a lot of that and have all of those patterns. And then from there you can learn to play by ear. So to me that's very similar.

Stacy Westfall:
That's so fun that you took it that direction. Because what I was about to say is I go back and forth between using the analogy of dance or art. And so it makes sense to me when people struggle to find the words for it, because at the end of it, that expression, once you have the skills, the expression that you can have with your art is what makes you unique as an artist. But the skill to handle, say, the paint and the brush and learn some of the fundamental techniques is what then makes you able to express yourself in a unique design of art that you come up with. And on top of that, the dance analogy works for me because we do have a partner, a dance partner in the horse. And so as beautifully as one of us can dance, if the two of us aren't dancing together, it's not a very beautiful dance routine. And so at some point, the if we want to call it repetition, patterns, skills, these are just all of that fundamental language building blocks that to get us the horse and I on that same page so we can express ourselves in this artistic way that happens to be a dance with a horse and a human, and it's just so much easier to learn when it's anchored in to some agreed on fundamentals. I fully embrace them for what is born out of them, which then inside out turns them back into something beautiful. Because the more you realize that what could be labeled as boring is really your communication between the horse, it's really analyzing that foundational communication. And then the better you get at looking at that detail, it's not boring, right? And so it unlocks everything else. So it's this beautiful round and round and circle way of looking at it. So first I want to thank all of you for joining me today. And then one last question. Is there anything else you'd like to share about your experience in the Resourceful Rider program?

Donna:
I would like to share. And Laura used the word flexibility. And I'm glad you teach us to think because and I keep bringing up the fact that I'm older and am. There's a point where you don't get stronger as you do things. There's a point where things just quit working. So what I've had to do is think, how can I help the horse understand what I need to do? And and I've been able to do that. I've come up with different ways and I've adapted and he has been able to learn. Because you've also said you can teach your horse any cue you want to do such and such, and you just be consistent and they'll think it through. And it will happen. So so that flexibility there and encouragement for us to be adaptable and figure things out on our own, has helped me as I have aged, because some of the things I just can't do anymore. And that's okay. Well, it's hard to admit that it's okay, but it's becoming okay, right?

Jan:
Good for you.

Stacy Westfall:
Thanks for sharing that.

Laura:
I was going to talk a little bit about the the melding of the fact that I do go for other lessons sometimes. One of the reasons I signed up for the online courses is that my instructor, even though I like him a lot, he has a very busy schedule, so I only end up going there every 3 to 5 weeks, and I needed more input and I was hesitant about the online. How could you help me when I wasn't? You weren't seeing me on my horse? But what I have discovered is that there is a value to discussing a lot of this when you're not on your horse, that if you're on your horse, it almost distracts you from absorbing and evaluating the same way. So it adds an element there that I really appreciate. And then I have all these resources. Your course is so full of everything that I am never at a loss to go and learn something that I need to know.

Jan:
And I'll just add to that a little bit. The course is so full of everything. And and although you're learning specific movements or helping with specific problems you might be having overall, for me personally, it's really helped with my confidence because I was dealing with some confidence issues. It's helped me focus. It's helped my horse focus. So just the whole package has really helped us to move forward and allowed me to enjoy my horse more and feel safe while doing it. So it's just the whole, the whole like I say, the whole package has just been what we needed for sure.

Nadia:
I really like the technical aspects of riding, like. A little bit like puzzle solving and getting it right. Getting the movements right and all the body parts and what I really appreciate your horsemanship or your training insights, like the knowledge that you only gain when having been in the business with horses for like 30 years and you just know what to train and how to train and what to pay attention to, or in all the pitfalls, for instance, like if you do the six sack and trotting to one direction and then changing into the other direction, you better be careful that your horse doesn't start anticipating, and then you create a whole new set of problems. And you can you point these problems out to us, and so we can be aware and we can train without creating further problems that we have to solve in the future. And that's just very in my, in my world, a very intelligent way of training a horse that I really, really appreciate. And the other thing I would like to add is you really have to put or ask students, we have to put in the work. So we have all the resources we need and we can learn at our own pace, but we have to go out and ride and do the repetitions, even though they might seem boring from time to time. But just trust that the process in the end will lead to the desired result. At least that's what I've experienced.

Stacy Westfall:
Well said. Thank you all for joining me today and I will see you in next week's zoom call.

Nadia:
Bye.

Stacy Westfall:
Thanks for listening. To learn more about the Resourceful Rider program, visit my website StacyWestfall.com.

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