Episode 212: The ‘gap’ in the conversation tells you what your horse is thinking.

Episode 212_ The _gap_ in the conversation tells you what your horse is thinking..mp3: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

Episode 212_ The _gap_ in the conversation tells you what your horse is thinking..mp3: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Stacy Westfall:
To me, that's not a horse being disobedient. That's a horse in conversation with me offering their thoughts, and yet so responsive to my responses that you, as the person watching, can't even see the conversation because it's so smooth.

Announcer:
Podcasting from a little cabin on a hill. This is the Stacy Westfall podcast. Stacy's goal is simple: to teach you to understand why horses do what they do, as well as the action steps for creating clear, confident communication with your horses.

Stacy Westfall:
Hi, I'm Stacy Westfall and I help riders understand and communicate clearly with their horses. In today's podcast, I want to talk about having a conversation with the horse. And as soon as I say that, I realize that one of the challenges that listeners like you face when learning to train is figuring out all these different theories that are taught and how to actually apply them with your horse. So when I say I want to talk about having a conversation with the horse, I'm aware it isn't really clear what I mean. Even though I see this challenge, I still choose to use this phrasing because the word conversation represents the back-and-forth exchange of ideas. Another word that also gets used a lot is having a relationship with a horse. So a lot of times I'll get emails from people where they will say one of their goals is to have a better relationship with their horse. Again, I believe the reason that people use words like this is because oftentimes when we're describing what we want with our horses, they're the best words that we have, even though they're not really clear when you try to put them into action. That's what I want to talk about on the podcast today, because the other side of it is, if all I do on the podcast is talk about what to do, then it begins to come across like the relationship part doesn't matter. Like it's all about use this rein, use this leg, and then it swings so far to what to do that it doesn't encompass the idea of the relationship. So today I want to explain how I use the word conversation in the context of training a horse, because my goal is to train or educate the horse and build a better relationship with the horse at the same time. And for me, that involves a lot of clear communication, and that communication is the conversation.

Stacy Westfall:
So when I was going to school, some of my favorite teachers–no, take that back, all of my favorite teachers taught and listened. And that's the type of trainer that I want to be for my horse. That's the type of teacher I want to be when I am educating my horse or educating my students inside my program. So although the teacher is the one who is structuring and deciding what to teach and how, the teacher is also listening so that they can understand what the student knows and they can learn where the student might need a little help. And sometimes the students have really amazing ideas that impressed the teacher. So inside of any conversation, there are gaps. The space where one person finishes speaking and the other one offers their response. The gap is what we're going to focus on today. When we talk about the conversation the gap is where you get to hear what the horse has to say. When should you leave a gap? How much of a gap should you leave? And what do you do if the horse fills the gap with a creative idea? This is where my concept of elementary school, high school, and college level understanding in the horse comes in handy because it makes sense that in elementary school there are smaller gaps left by the teacher. There's more direction, there's more redirecting the students, there's a lot of preventing major problems. If you look at children and teachers in elementary school, and that is the same with horses that are in their early education process, just as young children need more direction and supervision, the greener horse also needs this. Because oftentimes when a gap is left, young children will fill it in with really creative things like writing on the wall with a marker or cutting their own hair. In a very similar way, horses will fill in the blank with things that maybe we don't so much want. Maybe they speed up. Maybe they cut the circle in half. Maybe they head for the gate. Maybe they stop. So how does a horse go from elementary school where they are offering all these creative suggestions if you leave a big gap, but your goal in the long term is to be able to leave a bigger gap and have the horse fill it in with ideas you like, like maintaining the same speed, the same direction, that magical word of self-carriage? How do we move from those creative suggestions that elementary-level creatures tend to offer when they basically don't know what to fill the gap with, so they just do whatever occurs to them? How do we move from that to the goal that many riders have, whether you ride dressage horses, reining horses, trail horses, ranch horses, endurance horses? Many of us agree that we want rhythm, relaxation, focus, willingness. How do we get there? That's the main point of today's podcast.

Stacy Westfall:
The first way we get there is understanding that this is an issue on the table. It's understanding that when the horses offer something that I'm calling creative, you could call unwanted. But when the horse offers something, they're simply giving you feedback as to what they're thinking. So the first thing is to realize that if you choose to leave the gap and the horse offers you something, whether it's something you want or something you don't want, they're just giving you feedback. When we want to start to modify the type of feedback and say, Hey, I'd like to move this horse from elementary level of understanding to high school level of understanding, there are a couple real specific things you can do. Number one is seeing when the horse needs more support. And number two is setting the horse up for success. Here's what doesn't work. What doesn't work well is just leaving the gap over and over again. If you notice that you are leaving the gap and by that I mean lightening the aid, letting the horse have a little bit more rein, not using the leg quite as much. If you are leaving a gap in the conversation where you've said, Hey, horse, we've now trotted this same circle three times in a row, can I lighten the aids a little bit and you'll stay on this circle?If you leave the gap and over and over again, they continually offer something undesirable. Leaving the gap more times won't solve the problem. Mistakes are allowed. They're even expected. They are part of the process when you're training the horse. But what you're watching for also during the training is the habitual way of thinking that the horse has. So in this context, it would be the habitual answer that is given in the conversation. Or if you don't want to say, answer, the repetitive thought that the horse has when you pause to hear what they have to say in the conversation. Because in this situation you are the teacher who is educating the horse it is valuable for you to hear what they have to say, but it also will start to mislead them if you don't begin to see where they need more support or set them up for success so that when you do leave the gap, lighten the aid, give them a fraction of a time to be able to make a decision, if you don't set them up to make and offer good choices, then you're actually setting them up for failure.

Stacy Westfall:
So how do we get there? How do we get to the point where when you leave the gap in the conversation, the horse picks up the other side of the conversation, staying at least on the same train of thought, rather than, let's say, mentally veering off a different direction or physically veering off a different direction? Number one, see when the horse needs more support. As I was just saying, with the mistake of leaving the gap over and over again and watching the horse make the same mistake over and over again. At some point you need to actually say, This isn't productive. This horse needs more support. Let's go vague once and then I'll go specific. So if you are riding the horse around and you loosen up the reins hoping that the horse chooses A and they choose B. So you tighten up the reins, you continue riding around, you loosen up the reins hoping they take a but they take B. Consider how many times in a row you're going to set that same situation up over and over again, because essentially you're hoping they'll choose A but they've told you the last ten times in a row that they're going to choose B. That's what seeing that the horse needs more support means. When I am riding a colt, when I am starting a young green horse under saddle, I don't leave a lot of gaps. I don't leave a lot of space and ask them what they think. I'm really very clear with what I'm asking them to do. For example, I will bend their head around to the left, which is what I've trained them means stand still. I will put my foot in the strap, I will swing up on, and then I will let their head straighten out more because that is like releasing that parking brake. That is part of the cue that says, okay, now there are more options on the table. So that is the beginning of opening a gap, but it's not a complete wide open. It's not just free rein, do whatever you want. I open up that gap so it's different there, and then I immediately fill that in with the next direction. So maybe I say I close my legs and I ask the horse to move forward and then I steer the horse. And so I am constantly directing this green horse so that they're following the directions versus me leaving a lot of gaps. And the way that I look at it is I don't get on–Let's just talk about the first ten rides, for example. I don't get on and just see what's going to happen. I don't leave that gap. I am giving them instructions the whole time. And then what happens is they earn the gaps as we go. So to the level that they follow the instructions, well, so they are bending to that left rein. They're moving forward when my legs go on. They're slowing down when my legs come off. They're bending to that left rein as I bend to a stop, I dismount. As they correctly follow directions this is how they are earning more gaps. So maybe 20 rides in maybe it is feeling like there's a more gaps there. Maybe it is feeling a little less like I am constantly telling them every single step. But those gaps were earned. And as soon as I start to leave a little bit more room there–So maybe, for example, maybe I don't bend their head as far around so I don't fully engage what I have trained for a parking brake, so I don't do that. Do they still stand still or do they begin to walk off? And even if they don't physically move, how are they mentally? Are they still mentally focused on me? Or as I left more gaps is their attention leaving me and wandering somewhere else? Because typically, if I have been doing my groundwork and I've gone up to the riding stage, those horses are pretty dialed in and focused on me as the conversation is very alive as I am giving them instructions. Although I will grant you that as I'm giving direction, direction, direction, direction, direction to the horse, there's not a lot of gap for them, but in that way I am supporting them and over time they earn those bigger gaps as we go. So eventually when we're trotting along, they are getting more and more self-carriage, more and more gaps. But as soon as I start to see a pattern of, I give a little bit more and their head pops up and they look off over to the pasture, then I'm not going to continue to offer them that choice. Does that make sense? You following me?

Stacy Westfall:
Okay, That is seeing when the horse needs more support. I when I very first start colts, I just assume they need more support then they earn the gaps as we go. If you listen for it, what I'm talking about here in this early example is the horse is earning those gaps just for having its focus on me. So my early training with the horses is literally as much about training their brain to focus on me as it is about staying safe on that circle. So I am noticing if I need to rapid fire give better instructions to keep their attention, and that priority of keeping their focus on me is as big a deal to me as where they are with their body. Turn this into a toddler example for a minute. If I am having an engrossing conversation with a toddler as we go through the candy aisle, they're less likely to notice the candy. If I'm making eye contact and I'm doing hand gestures and I'm being very engaging. And that's very similar to what I'm saying can be done with the horse. And the number one thing that I'm doing there is I'm teaching them to focus, and the number two thing I'm doing there is keeping them from grabbing a chocolate bar as we go through that aisle.

Stacy Westfall:
Now let's talk about setting a horse up for success. And for me, when I think about this concept, yes, we could see that kind of the prevention that I was doing when I just talked about the horse needing more support. Prevention can be setting the horse up for success, but what do we do when we want to start giving more gaps and having that horse fill them in a little bit more frequently and more support means less gaps. So the way that I look at it is one way we can set the horse up for success is that when we do give that horse that support, we are planting a seed that we want to see show up in the next or in other related exercises. So let me make this very specific for you. The other day I was coaching a rider inside the Resourceful Rider program and I noticed that her horse was consistently a little tight in the head and neck. So instead of softening and dropping the head and neck, the horse tended to carry some of this upward. And this tension kind of searching upward is the way that I would describe it. And because this horse had that searching upward, I wanted to set the student up for success by giving them an exercise where they could clearly see when to soften and release. So I gave this student an exercise where they were actually dismounted and standing beside the horse, asking the horse to back up. And I gave very specific instructions on when and how to soften their hands. And about a week or two later, the student submitted another video and I said, Yeah, you're right on track. Here's what I would do. And then I didn't hear anything for a month. And the next time that I saw the video, the rider was not working on the backup. They were riding around on one of the other patterns that I have in the course. But what was so fascinating is that this horse, while riding around, was offering the softness that had been planted as a seed during the backup exercise. And it was such a fun zoom call to do because the rider was on there and we were talking. And it was so fun to see that she wasn't 100% clear on why the horse suddenly began offering this very desirable result. And it only took a little bit of coaching for me to show her how she–I mean, she knew. She said, I suspect it's because of this exercise over here, but I'm a little bit unclear of how it carried over here. And it was so fun to be able to show her that her horse had filled in the gap with something very desirable. Because I'm going to break it to you right now. Your horse is filling in the gaps right now. Whether you're aware of what's happening or not, your horse is part of the conversation. You might be constantly talking and they never get a word in edgewise. They're still thinking. They're still developing their thought process. You might be giving them a whole bunch of space. And so they're doing a lot of thinking, but not a lot of it is about you or what you're doing together. Or your horse might be going back and forth with you, but you just haven't quite seen the pattern that they're seeing. The question isn't, is your horse filling in the gaps? It is, what is your horse filling the gaps in with? Because I know this for sure. The better the horse gets at filling in the gaps with desirable conversation, the more magical it feels. When I am riding my highly trained horses, they are interested in the conversation. They enjoy the process of conversing with me. They like showing me what they know. They are not robots filling in the gap out of fear. They are offering their ideas because that's the way that they show me what they've been thinking about.

Stacy Westfall:
I'm going to go to a very high-level concept because even the way I've talked about this filling in the gap, somebody out there could be listening and thinking that it is more like training robots, like I leave a gap and then the horse doesn't offer what I want. So then I correct them. But that's not exactly what I'm saying. I understand you could take it like that, but let me try one more time from a different angle to explain it. This is a high-level concept and I'm going to–I'm going to explain it here, but I'm also going to give a warning with it. It is absolutely the way that I feel it when I'm doing this with my horse. But if you really try to oversimplify it and overapply it, this concept could actually be overdone and lead to some negative things. Because basically where this concept, if you overdo it, could lead to it would be like the kindergartner running the class instead of the teacher running the class. But anyway, here it is. There are basically two extremes in what I'm talking about. There is the drill sergeant who creates horse robots, doesn't let the horse have any thoughts, doesn't give the horse any gap in the conversation. When they do give the gap, they punish the horse if the horse doesn't get it correct. The opposite of that would be letting the kindergartner run the class instead of the teacher. It's a thousand-pound toddler that makes the rules. So if we look at both extremes, it starts to get a little bit easier to see where the middle would be. For me in between those two is a system that allows the horse to offer things, and if they offer something unwanted, I support and guide them into something else. I don't slam the door and say no speaking, but I do redirect them and it feels like, okay, let's go over here. And then if they offer something that I want, I reward it. Here's the part where people could be a little confused. So take this with the previous warning. If the horse offers something I want, I reward it, even if I didn't ask for it. So sometimes the horse will offer me something that I've been working on and I'm riding around and I didn't ask for it, but the horse offers it. Sometimes I will fully reward that. Much of the time, I slightly reward it and it feels like, thank you and let's do this too. So unlike slamming the door in their face and saying, no, no thinking like that, I'm actually doing the opposite. I'm actually saying, Oh, thank you, and let's do this. This is again, one of those concepts that's hard to illustrate, but I actually managed to capture this on video and I'll put a link to it in the show notes. For some of you longtime listeners, you may have seen it. It's one of the Stacy's video diary videos on YouTube where the horse I was training at the time, Jac was offering at the beginning of one of my rides, he was offering to spin and then he was offering to back up. And on that video I let him do the full expression of what I could feel so that I would be able to use it for moments of teaching people like this. Essentially what you see on that video is that I begin to move my legs in a waving motion, like I use to ask my horses to move forward, and he begins to offer me his thoughts. He says things like, Oh, how about this? Would you like a spin? Or Oh, how about this? So in that video, I allowed him to fully make those moves so that somebody watching the video would be able to see them. Then you see me much more subtly say, okay, here's where I'm going to guide him forward and we're going to move him on. That is an actual video example of me saying with my cues, Thank you and let's go do this. So if you really want to see this conversation concept in action, go to the show notes on my website and I will have the video in there. Because what you are not seeing when I ride my very advanced horses is how often they are offering very subtle versions, exactly like what is demonstrated in that video, but so subtle that you watching it can't see it. But me riding can feel my horse move a little bit to the right, and then I simply close my legs and say a little bit more forward. To me, that's not a horse being disobedient. That's a horse in conversation with me offering their thoughts and yet so responsive to my responses that you, as the person watching, can't even see the conversation because it's so smooth.

Stacy Westfall:
What does your horse fill the gaps with? Are you even leaving gaps? One of the emails I received recently actually said this: I want to do more things with my horse, not to my horse. The phrasing not to my horse gives me the idea that maybe the rider isn't leaving gaps because no matter what I go do with my horse, even if it looks like I'm riding the same training pattern that I've done since the first 30 days and it's now five years later, it doesn't feel like I'm doing it to my horse. It feels like I'm doing it with my horse because the conversation is there. If you like this concept and you would love some help applying it to your horse and your riding, come join me in the Resourceful Rider program. Inside there you will see video examples of very early rides, elementary school-level rides. I even have them labeled that way in the course, as well as high school and college level. You can see the differences in the amount of gap that's left. And I can also review your video and explain to you where you might need to leave a little more gap or maybe where you need to add a little more support and redirect in a way that isn't punishment, but instead set your horse up for success. Thanks for listening and I'll talk to you again in the next episode.

Announcer:
If you enjoy listening to Stacey's podcast, please visit stacywestfall.com for articles, videos, and tips to help you and your horse succeed.

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