Episode 35: The Reason We Are Fascinated With the Horses Body

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Speaker1:
Podcasting from a little cabin on a hill. This is the Stacy Westfall podcast. Stacy's goal is simple to teach you to understand why horses do what they do, as well as the action steps for creating clear, confident communication with your horses.

Speaker2:
Hi, I'm Stacy Westfall and I'm here to teach you how to understand, enjoy and successfully train your own horses. Welcome to season four where it's all about the horse's body. In this episode, I'm going to give you three tips to use when you're reading your horse's body language. I'll answer a listener question, and I'll tell you about a new segment that will be coming in future podcasts. In season one, I introduced my idea of the four square model. The four square model for a quick review has four sections in your head. If you imagine a plus, sign, each one of the four quadrants that is formed would be filled with the rider's mind. The rider's body. The horse's mind and the horse's body. I use this Foursquare model to help people understand the issues and break them down into smaller, actionable pieces. Because here's what gets interesting. Now that we've arrived at the horse's body, you're going to see that this is where it gets tricky to separate out the other three areas. If you're not quite clear on the illustration of the Foursquare model, you can find an image of it over in the show notes for this podcast at Stacy Westfall. Com when we're discussing the horse's body. This is where we quote unquote see our horses because we physically see what they're doing. But because horses don't verbally communicate by picking up the telephone, giving us a call and letting us know what's going on, we see their mind reflected in their body.

Speaker2:
And some days I kind of want to make a little cartoon that says, which comes first, the body or the mind? Because trying to separate the two is really like trying to separate two sides of a coin. The biggest difference is that we get to see them through their body. So in a way, it's natural that people get very, very focused on watching the body because it truly is the reflection of the mind. When we become students of the body language, it's important that you take a few extra steps here and break things down. For example, you could be looking at a horse and you could be making distinctions like hot. This is a hot horse. This is a cold horse. It's a nervous horse. It's excited horse. Bored, curious, painful. There's all kinds of different things you can read into body language. But here's where I have three tips for you. Number one, I want you to observe the horse's actions factually. Number two, I want you to observe your actions Factually. And then number three, I want you to walk away and draw conclusions. And this is where you would figure out how to modify the behavior. I am completely guilty of giving my horses, quote unquote, voices and human characteristics. And realistically, I don't think I'm really far off because I do believe that in the herd dynamics, they do have characteristics. And I do think there are a lot of similarities between some of the human characteristics of, you know, dynamics of people being in groups and horses being in groups.

Speaker2:
But for this assignment, when you go out, I need you to observe the horses just by reading their actions, and you'll know you're doing it factually. If somebody was recording you with like a black and white video camera with no sound. I don't know why it has to be black and white, but that's how I picture it in my mind. But if it was just recorded black and white and no sound and somebody was watching, they would agree with your description of it. So, for example, if you walked out to get your horse at the gate of the pasture and as you walked out there, you saw horse number one by horse number two, that would be something that could show up on the video camera and you could factually describe. I was walking to the gate when I was 20ft from the gate. Horse number one bit. Horse number two. And that would be something that we'd be able to see on the video camera. Tell it at least for one time without any other story. Then I want you to think about where you were in the story. I already said you were 20ft from the gate. And then later on, when you are away from the horses, I want you to reflect on what all of these facts mean. And if you want to let some of the story creep in at that time, I just need you aware of which pieces you feel are super factual and which ones are partly story, because here's what some of the things can happen.

Speaker2:
Sometimes people can think in their mind. They're walking to the gate and horse number one, which is the horse you're going to catch, bites. Horse number two. And some riders are like, I like it when it meets me at the gate. And when he drives the other horses away. I think he's doing it because he likes me. So can you see how there's a fact there that he is driving the other horses away? And then there's a story there about why you think it's happening. And I'm very interested in you being able to separate the two so that later on you can decide whether it's helpful to put those together or to treat them separate and, and, and have the factual neutral version. And because we can so easily tangle together the rider's mind and the rider's body and the horse's mind when we go to this big one in the horse's body and we see the horse number one bite horse number two, we've got to be able to look at it through different layers. We need to be able to observe that the rider's mind had a piece to play with this. So what the rider tolerates on a daily basis. For example, I don't tolerate horses being aggressive with humans within eyesight. Now, you could even maybe put it like 30ft, 50ft, but there's literally going to be a zone where you reinforce your presence being there or you don't reinforce your presence being there.

Speaker2:
This is why some of the issues people have with horses, when the horses are way out in a pasture, become a lot more challenging because you're not actually part of that. But for me, for sure, within 30ft, I don't want any one of my horses being aggressive around any other horse. When I'm within 30ft. My bubble is actually bigger than that, but we're just going to use 30 for right now. So if in this example the horse was biting when you were within 20ft, that is actually telling something about what's allowed on a daily basis, which is telling us something about the rider's mind in that example, because that's going to be reflected in the rider's body. So when the rider's approaching the gate, I guess this is a handler in this case. But when the human is approaching the gate, if they're okay with it, they're going to be in a really neutral position when they see this whole thing go down. And so this is actually going to influence the horse's behavior at the gate, because if I walk in and my rules are when I'm here, I'm the one that you guys all need to be paying attention to, then that will even stop the more dominant one if they are actually focused on me, if they are actually yielding to me and curious about me and listening to me, that's going to stop them from attacking because it's not allowed.

Speaker2:
And so my mind and body is having an influence over the horse's mind, or it is pretending not to, and it is allowing the horse's mind to do what it wants. And in this case, that would be attacking the other horse, which could be argued that if it's within 30ft or 20ft or five feet, where is your line where you don't allow that anymore because it can become a slippery slope to where now you're leading the horse and it feels okay with biting at another horse, or you're riding the horse and it feels okay with biting or kicking at another horse, because these are the lines we are drawing, whether or not we admit it and it is changing our relationship with our horse. And although it looks like it's reflected just in the horse's body, this horse is biting, kicking, being aggressive with humans around it is starting all. It's all of these quadrants all together. Now, you could say that if you're going to pick up a mustang at a roundup, that there wouldn't be as much influence of the rider's mind and the rider's body at that point. And I would totally grant you that. And that is not the totally normal situation that I think most of us are in. So for sure it's going to be less fitting in some examples, but for the most part in our day to day handling of the horses, this is what's going on, because there's all kinds of different options here.

Speaker2:
If you like that your horse protects you, then you're going to project that and you're going to allow that. And if you want your horses to be focused on you, you're going to put out a different energy as you're approaching. There's all kinds of different things. Now let's just jump into another example. Let's say that we want to modify that behavior. Then that the first thing we're going to have to do, if we decide that we're going to call it a problem, that the horse is being aggressive within 20ft, then that's going to have to change in your mind first. Then it's going to change in your body, and then your behavior is going to then influence the horse's mind and the horse's body. And that is what we're going to be discussing in this season of the podcast, how we can influence the horse's body. But we're also going to recognize that there are a lot of different layers. The great news is I have a lot of questions that have come in, some super excited to be answering them and using the full range of the Foursquare model. I'd like to run through one more example of how some of this can be happening when we're working with our horses, and in this case, I'm going to say, let's say that we are riding the horse and we go to ride to the right. So the right would be clockwise.

Speaker2:
And we noticed that the horse is hesitant to ride to the right. And you need to observe this. And hopefully you can observe the big picture, which is the whole ride, not just this one moment of the ride. So you know you have a problem going to the right, but I want you to observe the whole ride. And then what's even better is when you have had a horse for a while, and you can observe long term patterns. For me, the way that I would describe this is I'm kind of always zooming in and zooming out. I'm trying to go big picture and look at the horse over a period of time. And I'm trying to go zoomed in to small picture. So in my last example I said, if you were picking up a mustang, well, yeah, at that point there's not a lot of a big picture because you just met the horse. But if your horse has been meeting you at the gate and having this issue for months or years, or you've been meeting them at the gate and you've been watching this progress, that's the kind of information that's important to be gathering. So sometimes when we look at like, okay, I'm riding my horse and he's hesitant to go to the right, I want to know, when did you first notice that? And I want to start breaking down the pattern. So when people come and they ride with me here at my house, the first thing I do is I observe them working with their horses on the ground and ridden, and I make notes of, do they start to the right? Do they start to the left? Do they end to the right? Do they end to the left? And I've got all of this checklist going on in my mind, because I am observing all of these factual things that we could say about the pattern that they were doing.

Speaker2:
They they led the horse in a certain way. They mounted the horse in a certain way. They walked off in a certain way. They always ended and turned this direction. So I'm observing all of this in a very factual way. Then when we sit down and do a debrief and we start talking about it, I can start to unwrap how long some of these things have been going on. Because when we go to send the horse around to the right, whether it's on the ground or whether we're riding it, you can run into things that go on in the rider's mind and the rider's body that start to affect the horse's mind and the horse's body. So, for example, if you're lunging to the right and you feel more uncoordinated going to the right than the left, then that can be reflected into your horse. If you're riding and you had an issue where the horse bucked when you were going to the right, then maybe that sets you off and you're a little more uptight.

Speaker2:
So maybe you had an issue that happened when you were riding to the right, and now it's in your mind that something's going to happen, riding to the right. And it might not have even happened on this horse. But if you can start to break down and recognize the pattern of what's going on, you'll be able to start to break down. Is it something happening, going to the right in the horse's body, or is the horse's mind picking up on something where I always end when I go to the right, so I only go? I meant to go ten times, but now my horse is starting to say at four, hey, do we really have to go? We always end our ride right here. Why don't we just end at four instead of ten? So they start to get more and more resistant. That could be coming from a pattern that you do when you always ride and end at a certain spot. That could be coming from fear in your mind, both of which can be reflected into your body. Whether you have a fear reflected into your body or whether your pattern just because you're not aware, you always end over here and your horse will start pointing and being like we always end when we do this. Let's get to this faster and and get to this next thing. And so it's tricky when we start breaking down the horse's body. But I think the thing that makes breaking down the horse's body hands down, the most difficult of anything, aside from the fact that all the quadrants line up here over and over again, the thing that makes it the most difficulty is this lingering question in the back of your mind, is my horse lame or sore? This is where having a long term view of your horse becomes pretty helpful, because you can start to see a pattern of issues that happen, or you can see a pattern of, oh, this is really unusual behavior from my horse today.

Speaker2:
Maybe my horse is sore, but more often than not, I have lots and lots of riders that are very conscious of their horses soundness or comfort level, and a lot of the questions that are reflected in the rider's mind are. Am I riding him too hard? Am I asking for too much? How much is too much? How hard can I do this? Is ten too many times? Is four enough times? Like, most of the time people are going like, how little physical can I do? I don't want to hurt my horse. And it's coming from a really good place, but it can start to creep backwards and cause issues in the horses mind, because they start to catch on to the hesitation that you have about the lameness and the questions of soreness and those things. Any discussion of the horse's body would be incomplete if we don't discuss the horse's physical comfort and physical health. Listen to this question that came in.

Speaker3:
Hi Stacy, my name is Fran and I was wondering if you ever do anything about routine. Care to let everybody know what you should be doing when you should be doing it? Do you worming farrier care, veterinary visits, that type of thing? Um just curious. Thanks so much. I know you do a lot with the training, but I know healthy horse makes a happier, trained horse. So, um. Thanks.

Speaker2:
Thank you, Fran, for your question. And the answer is, I don't always feel qualified to answer some of the physical health questions that I would want to address, but I have a really cool opportunity that I think you guys are going to enjoy and thrive has begun sponsoring this podcast, and as part of the sponsorship, we're going to bring to you some of these little segments of on call with different vets. And Equi thrive develops a lot of products that are meant to help horses during aging and training and competition. And we'll get into that later on in other podcasts when we discuss popcorn, My horse, and the results that he's had. But what I want you to know right now is that Equi Thrive works really closely with veterinarians, and because they have that relationship already, they've lined up some of the top vets in the country to join me on the podcast to answer your questions regarding your horse's health. So as I go throughout this season, if you have any specific questions you'd like answered, then go ahead and call them in. I already have a whole list of questions, because I know lots of areas where I recommend people work their horses harder or be careful of doing this. And I'm so excited to be able to ask a vet their professional opinion so that we can put it out there. Because I'm super excited about learning, and I think this is going to be a great opportunity for all of us. This is just the beginning of season four and I'm so excited. Thanks for listening and I'll talk to you again in the next episode.

Speaker1:
If you enjoy listening to Stacy's podcast, please visit Stacy Westfall. Com for articles, videos and tips to help you and your horse succeed.

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