Episode 50: Finding Work/Life Balance with Stacy Westfall and Ginny Telego

SWS050.mp3: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

SWS050.mp3: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Speaker1:
Podcasting from a little cabin on a hill. This is the Stacy Westfall podcast. Stacy's goal is simple to teach you to understand why horses do what they do, as well as the action steps for creating clear, confident communication with your horses.

Speaker2:
Hi, I'm Stacy Westfall.

Speaker3:
And I'm Jenny Taleggio and we are coming at you live from the Loco Bean in Loudonville, Ohio.

Speaker2:
Welcome to episode 50 of the podcast. In this special edition, I wanted to invite you into our conversation over coffee and tea. You're a tea drinker.

Speaker3:
I am no coffee for me. You have been really busy with doing your western dressage thing, and I've been busy traveling and building a house after my fire and all of that. Going back to school? Oh yeah, and starting grad school. Because apparently I had an extra five minutes somewhere. Yes, somewhere. I'm curious, you know. How do you. How do you balance your work and home? Because, you know, Jesse's also in the horse industry, and he's traveling, doing things for his work. So how do you balance that out, that you still are working towards your goals and putting in the time you need to and for your business, but make time for your family.

Speaker2:
Can you define balance for me? Okay, well, this is a trick question. When you find that you're.

Speaker3:
Going to be a millionaire. But what works for you, though, because what works for you is going to be different than what might work for me.

Speaker2:
Yeah, I honestly think the balance question is a little bit of a I think it's the trick there. I think it's the like, what other words could we put in there aside from balance? Because I know that I know the answer I want to give is that I want seasons in my life. That's how I view it. So I don't view. I view moments at balance, but I don't really view the whole thing as is balanced. So what I've noticed I do, and I think that's why every time we have a conversation, I always grab a word from you. Have you noticed that I'm always like, that's the word I'm going to take away? Yeah you do.

Speaker3:
And you write it down.

Speaker2:
Yeah. I'm like really big on words. And so what I realized that I do a lot of times when I think about if I'm just pondering a question like that, is it all starts swapping out the word balance for a bunch of different words until I figure out something that leads me somewhere else. And and the first thing that comes to mind is, is seasons. And just the idea that I almost let, if you want to say be out of balance. But like, I know that like right now it's the fall and I can feel that winding down tiredness and I question whether or not I could schedule my life different, that I wouldn't have it. But then I look back and I think I've always had that when the sun is shining and it's cold and crisp out. Yeah, I want to lay down in the grass. This is very specific. I want to lay down in the grass. I want to smell the grass in the earth. And I want to just, like, fall asleep and have a nap in the sun. Yeah, but I've always wanted that as long as I can remember. Like, every fall that I can think of. So why am I fighting this? Why am I, like, trying to think that? Isn't this just one of the seasons? And this transitions into the winter season? And yeah, in the winter season means different things to me than the spring season. So I don't think I'm answering the question at all. But no.

Speaker3:
It's funny because I agree. I don't think there is an answer to that. Like, I hear people say that all the time. They're like, oh, I'm trying to find work life balance. I mean, there's books out there and blogs and workshops and all these things for people to go to that are supposed to help you, you know, with this work life balance. But Life is so uncertain. Every day. Every moment. And so you might have quote unquote balance in this moment. But five minutes from now, it's going to be it could get thrown off. Yeah. You know, so I think it's more about adapting and, and I like your, your way of looking at it of, you know, there's different seasons and you're just you're always just moving from one end to the next and looking at it from the perspective of, um, you know, okay, so this is where it's at right now. Right now I need to maybe be putting more time and effort into into my work. Right. Like, you had this huge goal this year for going to the Western dressage world show. And and so you knew that there were going to be times and your family was aware of this because they know you're very driven. Right. And so. So another.

Speaker2:
Word. Right.

Speaker3:
And but there were times I'm sure where, where because that was a goal for you that that was something where you needed to have more of yourself.

Speaker2:
To go next door real.

Speaker3:
Quick. Yeah. As opposed to with your family. But you also had times where, you know, you've had a lot of transitions going on with your sons of, you know, moving out and getting on their own. And so there's been times where that needed to be the priority, you know. And so I don't think I don't think there is a, a like solution of how to have balance. I think it's more in your mindset about it.

Speaker2:
You know, when you were saying that, it actually made me laugh because I'm thinking, geez, my one view of life that seems to be the most all encompassing is when I think about the horses. And I think when I see people get in trouble with horses is when they want balance every day.

Speaker3:
Yes, yes, that's a great analogy.

Speaker2:
Like they want like, they're like, I want to go out and I want to have this perfect ride every single day. And I'm like, okay, we have to talk about this. And so maybe what I need to do is like, look at my whole life and that idea of balance, like, I don't crave this perfectly balanced thing. So yesterday, well, actually last week when I came home from the world show and I was riding, I was laughing because I told Jesse. I said if people were watching me, they'd think, I've lost my mind. Like, I just went out there. I was successful, fairly successful across the board and won two of the classes. And I came home and I take I take them back into snaffle bits, I take them back into no spurs. And I basically, for lack of a better like I tore everything apart all the way down. It's sort of like I've just been reading this book and I've been cleaning that whole Marie Kondo way where you, like, take everything out of the closet, Like you're not allowed to leave a single thing in the closet, right? You take all of it out so you can look at it. And that's basically what I did with the horses. But I also recognize that I'm comfortable that it's like I've heard the analogy that if you look at training a horse a little bit like building a car, well, you shouldn't take it apart if you don't know how the pieces fit together.

Speaker3:
True story. You know, and you're always worried, like, my husband does that. And I'm always worried.

Speaker2:
Like I.

Speaker3:
You know, that there's like, one nut somewhere. And I think that seems like that was probably really important, right? And I think that's what happens with horses.

Speaker2:
So I think with the horses, like I'm my comfort zone of understanding how it's been put together. But I also understand like I have to deconstruct it all. So like I've decided instead of puzzle pieces, my new favorite analogy is Legos. I've spent years.

Speaker3:
Legos are.

Speaker2:
Fun. I spent years standing on stepping on Legos. I've been crippled by Legos, but it's almost like so with my horses. I've been taking all these pieces and I've been. And I've built the best. I built the best thing I could go into the world show. Right. And it's constructed. It's. It's 12in high and it's whatever. And it's the shape it is. Yeah, but when I go home, if I want better next year, I have to take it all apart. Mhm. I have to totally deconstruct the whole thing.

Speaker3:
Right.

Speaker2:
And I think that's where when you have this idea of balance, you would not want to take anything apart. You would not want to return back to like, you know, like I have this, um, I'm noticing your, your pad of paper here. And, you know, I was at TJ Maxx the other day and I had bought this one journal made by a company called fringe.

Speaker3:
Okay.

Speaker2:
And, um, I bought one at at TJ Maxx a while ago, and I love it. So I'm in there like hoarder buying like, all of the fringe journals.

Speaker3:
I can find. Like what's different about that than really smooth?

Speaker2:
It's like. It's like something about the paper and the pen and the way they write.

Speaker3:
Does it come with its own pen? No. Okay. No, but.

Speaker2:
I do have a favorite pen or two.

Speaker3:
Oh, yeah. Well, I yeah, I only yeah, I do too.

Speaker2:
Yeah, I.

Speaker3:
Stalk people if I, if I like, if they borrow my pen, I stalk them. It's true story.

Speaker2:
But so but it's like I get torn with those pieces of paper. I actually love the yellow journal pads. Like you, I don't have an attachment to the journal pads so I can write on them, rip it off, throw it away. Yeah, but these journals that I have that are nice, I like I'm, I'm, I'm very protective of how I write in it and I'm like and I'm very neat with it and it serves a purpose, but it is not as beneficial for me at times as when I'm like using one of those ugly legal pads that I can, just like I can put.

Speaker3:
Stuff out.

Speaker2:
There. Yeah. Everything. And I can work all this messy stuff out, and then I used my other journal the other way. Yeah. So? So you.

Speaker3:
That's interesting. So you balance out how you sort of manage or keep track of some of your thoughts, your thoughts as well, like you have. The journal is, for one, you know, certain type of thinking process that you're having. And then you have the plain old legal pad for something else. And so there's times where the journal might require more of your time, and there's other times where the plain old legal pad might have more of your time. And I think it just comes back to this, this sort of, this misnomer about what balance is. Yeah. You know, I mean, we talk about that a lot when, when you're like, well, you know, trying to figure out how to, how do I balance out the time for this and the time for this and then. Oh yeah. And then you need to write a blog and then I need to do a podcast, and I need to do this and that, you know, because we're trying to trying to figure out how do we grow our business, but how do we still keep doing things that we want to do and enjoy doing? And oh yeah, and then we have family.

Speaker2:
Yeah. Or in your case, your house burns down.

Speaker3:
Right, right. Hello. Yeah. So having to balance having talk about having being thrown off balance. Right. And I think that's what I am, you know thinking of when I was saying earlier how, you know, there's so much uncertainty all the time for us. And um, to me, it's been more important for me to develop the ability to regain my balance fairly quickly so that even when something uncertain happens, it doesn't completely throw me off. Right. I mean, so I'm as we're talking, I'm thinking about it of, like, being on the horse, right? With no stirrups, and you're riding with no stirrups, and, um, you know, you you have to be able to adjust yourself moment to moment, you know, because with the horse's movement and depending on what your balance is, the stronger you get right as a rider, the easier it is for you to stay to be able to adapt to whatever happens. So if the horse is going along and you're up there, you know, with no stirrups and you're, you know, trying to trying to stay on and, and the horse all of a sudden kind of veers one way or the other. If you haven't developed the ability to quickly regain your balance, then then obviously could be something that isn't as productive. Like you just slide off the side of the horse, you know? But if you develop the skill to be able to be okay with, um, knowing that at some point in time the horse could veer off one way or the other, or stop suddenly or whatever, and it's not going to throw you off.

Speaker2:
Yeah. Aw. Now, here's there's two thoughts that popped into my head while you were talking. One was, I think maybe. Is this a good time to mention that we're recording in a coffee shop?

Speaker3:
Yeah. We're at Loco Bean in Loudonville. We're so appreciative of them letting us be here.

Speaker2:
But the two things that occurred to me during that were number one, like how much of this conversation I think we keep bringing to words in a physical sense, but I think it's mostly mental. Definitely the balance you're talking about. When I hear it, anyway, the balance you're talking about is a mental balance, because.

Speaker3:
A physical.

Speaker2:
Balance is is a great analogy. But when your house burned down, like your house is gone. Like the physical world is totally disrupted. But the challenge for you, I'm going to guess, is there's a huge mental, you know, is that not where it's taking place? Is this not the balance we're talking about?

Speaker3:
I think it's absolutely the balance we're talking about. And and so being able to develop the mental capacity and the emotional resilience to be able to adapt to uncertainty. You know, I mean, without a doubt, losing my house and losing my dogs was, you know, that was like being totally thrown off somewhere.

Speaker2:
And that was recent, right?

Speaker3:
Yeah. Six months. So six months ago and um, and, but but because because I've done a lot of self-development work, because of the work I do, you know, in my business. Um, I think that played a big part that I was I was able to kind of stop and look at the situation and, and figure out, okay, what do I need to do in order to help myself stay on a forward thinking track? I have to acknowledge what happened. I have to acknowledge, you know, the the difficulty of that, the trauma of all of that. But then I also I also I have a business to continue doing and I love the work I do. And so um, being able to have the mental ability to adapt, I think that just that's what it keeps coming to my mind is adaptability. So to me, it's not not necessarily being able to balance, it's being able to adapt. See, you.

Speaker2:
Finally replaced my word for me. So I got it out of you now. And so.

Speaker3:
You're right, I just I had to work through that in.

Speaker2:
My and extroverted.

Speaker3:
Processing way.

Speaker2:
And I'm still and I'm still working through it in the idea that that the balance that I think people do look for is they look for the physical balance. Because as you were sitting there using the analogy of balancing on the horse, I was actually thinking, I think the beauty of childhood for me was that I was given this little pony and I couldn't saddle her, but. But I could get her near things and get on her. And I could be running through the field, and she would stop suddenly to eat grass, and I would slide down her neck so it when it becomes. And I will absolutely admit, sitting here in my mid 40s, that the idea of falling off a horse was way easier.

Speaker3:
When you were six and eight. Self-preservation at six when.

Speaker2:
It was, the idea was way easier, but I actually think that it's knowing it's not the fear or the preventing of the falling off. It's knowing the falling off could come and going anyway, right? You lost your dogs and you had to. And you, you chose to get another one. That's a huge risk. Yeah. Wait a minute. Two. Oh, I've missed even more. Like, okay, you started grad school and you started a house, and you travel all over the country and you got another dog. And it's only been like six weeks since we had coffee last, so, like, I'm an underachiever. This is what I hang out with. Okay. Wait. You only had one. You only had Phoenix one.

Speaker3:
No, I got Roscoe first. I got Roscoe was the one I got back in May, and then I got Phoenix in June.

Speaker2:
Okay. I got my, I got I got things flip flop. Yeah.

Speaker3:
Yeah. There you go. Yeah.

Speaker2:
But that's a huge risk there.

Speaker3:
Absolutely.

Speaker2:
That's that huge.

Speaker3:
Very big risk.

Speaker2:
So that's what I mean. Like my mom's going through it right now with her dog having cancer. You know, he's 12. He's near the end of what you can Google for his regular lifespan anyway. And it's like. But I think that if that back to the analogy of like falling off the horse or finding this perfect balance, if you wanted to totally avoid all that, you would have to not get another dog.

Speaker3:
You're exactly right. I was just thinking about that last week. I was just thinking about that because I was I was thinking about, you know, the the difficulty that I had in, um, sort of opening myself up to the new dogs emotionally, you know, and, and I thought, well, that's not fair to them, you know, because they don't know. That's the great thing about the animals, right? Is they're totally clueless about anything that's happened. They don't know. They're just in the present moment. And, um, but that was really good for me because that was another place that I had to I had to kind of look at my emotional reserves and, and think of how do I adapt now to this situation because I chose to, you know, bring these other two, these other two Aussies in to our world. And things are kind of chaotic because we're living in a mobile home that is very small. So two people and two Australian shepherds and a cat now that is living in the house because it's winter, it's very cozy and very exciting sometimes in there. But um, but yeah, I had to be willing to do that. You know, but but for me, the thought of not having the dogs is far more, um, uncomfortable for me than it was for me to open up myself to another dog.

Speaker3:
And that happens a lot. I know there's a lot of people that, you know, when they lose a dog, especially if they've had it for a long time, and then they'll say, oh, I'm just not ready for another dog because it's very it's painful, you know, and obviously in my situation of losing all three of my dogs in the fire, you know, they were all young and and it was so unexpected and, and very traumatic for me because I was the first one there and couldn't get them. And um, and so, you know, having to go through that grieving process, but then thinking to myself that, you know what? There's other dogs that I have the ability to rescue. So I again, so I had to find the, the the balance. How do I adapt in my own emotional state to open up myself, to, um, to bring in two other dogs, you know, that needed homes. And so, um, it just, you know, it takes a lot of emotional resiliency. But I also had to really realize and I think the fire definitely brought this home for me. I don't have any control over anything.

Speaker2:
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker3:
I mean, that's the thing, right? When we're talking about trying to find this balance between work and life or even the ability to adapt to things. Um, see, this is there's this whole brain thing that I am so excited about learning, um, because our brains want certainty. Um, our brains seek certainty. So uncertainty. Anytime we're faced with uncertainty or even thinking about uncertainty, it makes us go. It makes us get all, you know, tense and and nervous. And so we want to find a way to keep things certain. Right. So we think if we if we somehow are able to control this work life thing that everything, then we don't ever have to worry about the uncertainty. But I'm just going to say uncertainty is certain as one thing you are guaranteed of in life. And, and so I, I just really think that for us, when you and I are talking about this, you know, as, as entrepreneurs and having our own businesses, and we travel a lot and also trying to maintain all of our relationships in our life. They're really learning to adapt to. The situation is much healthier emotionally for us than us trying to think we can control things and have quote unquote, balance.

Speaker2:
Yeah, openness is actually the word I'm grabbing out of this.

Speaker3:
That's a really good. Yeah, you.

Speaker2:
Used it several times there.

Speaker3:
And you're.

Speaker2:
Welcome. Thank you, thank you, thank you. But see that's two. Openness. Openness is the one. Adaptability led to openness. But openness is the one I'm grabbing because that's the, um, you know, all the way back to being a little, you know, little kid. I remember somebody early on holding their hand shut and talking about, you know, like, you can't receive and you can't give if your hand is closed, you know, an open hand can give and can receive. And. Yeah, but I think what's happening here is that a lot of times we're talking about negative emotions opening, Opening up to risk of pain. If you lose, you know something you love. Or when you were talking and you talked about going through the grieving process. I remember writing an article. It must have been back in like it must have been back in 2000 and around 2010 or 9 or something like that anyway. And um, and I had it was actually Willow's dad and I had shown him at the reigning Futurity. I made the finals and I went in to run for the finals, and they always have. You go in, you're down in Oklahoma. It says Gateway of Champions. Like that's what you're running underneath. And like they always do a run in pattern. So you're standing outside and it says Gateway of Champions. And they've got all the music blaring. And you run down the tunnel and you and it opens up into this huge coliseum full of people. And you run down in and he, uh, and the first thing you do is a sliding stop and back up. And he did the sliding stop and started backing up and he started to back a little bit crooked. And so I went to fix him. But this goes back to habits and how your habits.

Speaker3:
Habits Yeah. those you.

Speaker2:
Make, your habits and then your habits make you. And so I went to I was backing him up. I ride young horses and older horses and problem horses and all this stuff. So he starts backing up and if you can imagine, instead of backing straight, his head starts to go kind of left, which takes his hips to the right. Yeah. And I'm riding right handed. And I reached up with my pinky finger and I hooked the right rein for a brief second, because that would shorten that rein and bring him back around. I literally didn't even think about this. This is pure muscle memory in the moment. Needs to be straight. Boom. Back up, do the rest of my run. I come out and they say score will be held for video review. By the way, this is not a good thing to hear, right? Right. And and my husband who's a certainty.

Speaker3:
Uncertainty.

Speaker2:
Uncertainty in his and my husband's like what what what could happen? Because he's standing basically he was standing like behind me. So he wouldn't have even been able to see it because he wouldn't have been able to see my hand. But he could see all the other big things like, you know, and he knows none of the other big stuff that you can get disqualified for. And he's just like trying to figure it out. And but it's this I remember when I wrote an article and it was about grieving, and basically I wrote an article on failure and grieving because if I bought this horse, I trained this horse, I took this horse, I had this huge goal. I essentially am the one that got us like a penalty score of zero, right?

Speaker3:
Yeah.

Speaker2:
It wasn't his fault, you know. It wasn't his fault. You can't blame it on that. All this stuff and all of this happened, and I stopped and and it was like I went through a grieving process. And it was the first time I ever connected the dots that a grieving process could happen for more than the death of something. And I call it. I titled it death of a dream. Yes. And as it went through the editing process, the very last time it went through the editing process, they were like, do you think that's a little harsh on the title? I'm like, no.

Speaker3:
Because that's you're right.

Speaker2:
You're right. Yeah. It was this death of this dream. And I know, like even looking back at it now, like I know that it can it I can see how the editor was brave enough to ask me the question. It seems a little dramatic, right? But I'm telling you, living in the moment of everything, you stack up on there. But what it does is it starts to to teach you. Either you don't want to reach out that far because you're afraid of that pain, or you realize you can live through it. Right. And it really it sucks. Which I think you might have brought up about your house fire a couple of times.

Speaker3:
Yeah.

Speaker2:
Wouldn't wish it on anybody. Yeah. And yours is way more to me. And it's funny because I want to say more real. But for me, that was real. It was.

Speaker3:
Right. Yeah. Yeah. And so.

Speaker2:
It was. And it was. And it felt like a grieving process. But acknowledging it as a grieving process made me able to move through it and also able to realize that, you know, I was still willing to take the risk of of loving another horse and signing up for another dream and, and doing that. And I wonder sometimes if people aren't shut down because they're afraid of the pain. Yes. That they're not necessarily walking through in that grieving process and then being like, okay, I can do this again.

Speaker3:
I think that is spot on. I mean, you know, you think of how many, how many times, you know, we, we we get a horse, right? And we whatever's driving us behind that, you know, it's like, oh, um, I've always I've always wanted to have a horse. Right. So now I get a horse, and whether I'm going to trail ride or I'm going to compete at the Congress or whatever. Um, you when you get the horse, you have all of these dreams in your mind. You have all these goals and things you want to do. Um, I can relate to it. When I bought my paint mare, you know, I got her as a baby. And she's very well bred and is a pleasure horse. And I had in my mind I was like, you know, she qualified for all these futurities. And and I was like, oh, this is, this is going to be fun, you know, because she was really cute and a great mover and all these things and, and, and then just life was happening to me. Um, but I think, I think some of the reason that that we never got anywhere. I mean, some of it was her physical issues. She, you know, started to have some physical issues. But the majority of the time of the first, probably six years of her life. You know, I got her started, but then I allowed other things to to prevent me from, you know, investing more time in it. But I wonder sometimes if, if I sort of self-sabotaged.

Speaker2:
Limiting belief idea.

Speaker3:
Exactly. Right. Upper one of our other limitations of, um, if I sort of when I because I would start thinking about that and then and then these self-imposed limitations and upper limit things would come in of, oh, you know what? Um, that's a lot of money to, to do that or, or the really the big one is I don't think I'm good enough to do it. Right. And, um, and, and so, so I, I always was able to find all these other things. I was like, oh, well, I just know I don't have time to ride my horse this week because, oh, I, you know, I was really busy and I was busy because I was working multiple jobs and trying to start my business and all these things. But in the reality I was avoiding. I mean, that's what it. I mean, if I'm just really brutally honest with myself, I was avoiding because I didn't want to fail. I didn't want the pain of having to look at, oh, I did all this. I invested all of this. And then and then the pain of having it not turn out the way I wanted it to. Right.

Speaker2:
So I have a question. Were you sneakily suspicious of that while it was happening? No. Or. No. It was no.

Speaker3:
It was much later when I started to when I really started doing my own, you know, sort of personal development in order to be able to do the work I do with leadership, I had to take my own journey of self-awareness. Yeah. You know, was quite painful on occasion.

Speaker2:
Yeah. So I was you know, it was interesting because I was coaching somebody the other day, and there must be this new thought that's like just under the surface of my brain, like it's just under the surface. Like, I haven't been able to vocalize it yet, but I could feel it. Find a word for it. We'll find it. It's going to be a whole subject. It's big. Um, but it was something along the lines of having a series of people come. And just to get you on the same page with me, it's almost like. It's almost like they're doing the horse as a bucket list thing. I've always wanted to do this. I'm not getting any younger. I'm in my mid. Fill in the blanks. Right. And and I and I really and and there's something under the surface there for me that I really empathize with because I, I get it. But there's also something there that I'm afraid is sabotaging the very thing they want. That's what I feel, the feeling I get. Right, right. You have this look, like, obvious. Yeah.

Speaker3:
Yeah.

Speaker2:
Because could you clarify that before I go on? So.

Speaker3:
Well, I think it comes back to what you were just what you were talking about with, um, after the thing happened with your with the death of a dream, with the death of a dream. And even for me, you know, after going through the loss of my dogs, of you're faced with sort of being at this fork in the road, right? One fork is I'm going to take the safe route. And so I'm emotionally safe route. Right. I'm not going to put myself out there again. In your case not going to I'm not going to get another horse of that quality or and I'm not going to set a goal for myself like that. Right. And so and in my case, I the emotionally safe path for me would have been I am not going to get another dog because it was so painful to lose my other dogs, you know, in the fire. And and I've lost lots of dogs. I mean, I've had a lot of dogs over my life and I've had to, you know, put them down. And I've had I've had it happen unexpectedly, you know, for different things. But this one was definitely a lot more painful than any of the others, obviously. And so, so the safe route is emotionally, I'm not going I'm not going to put myself in the situation where I might get emotionally hurt. The other path is the one that's more windy and up and down and mountains in the middle and right. So for you at least looking at it from from a recent goal, was you setting this goal for yourself with the dressage piece and going to the Western Dressage World show. Um, you you really became vulnerable in that situation. And I think that's what we avoid, what we're trying we're trying to avoid being vulnerable because we have a belief, a perception.

Speaker2:
That.

Speaker3:
Being vulnerable is somehow bad. That it's weakness. Right? So. So if I, if I prevent myself from being vulnerable, then I don't have to worry about about, you know, being emotionally hurt or disappointed or whatever those things are. And so I think we absolutely self-sabotage. I mean, that's I did it with my horse. And, um, because we have this thing in our head of, oh, I really want to do this, but then there's this little thing in our brain that I'm going to explore how this happens in my graduate work, I think.

Speaker2:
Yeah. Um.

Speaker3:
Is what is it? What is that thought process that that kicks in and sort of is that that little maybe it's that little voice or that little hairy thing on your shoulder going, You're not going to do that. You can't do that or whatever. Um, but that comes into play. And I think that's where, um, we don't recognize it. And, and in order to move through it, we have to allow ourselves to be vulnerable. So in that in that case with the person with their horse. Right. If that person really wants to move through whatever challenges they're having, they're going to have to take that hard look at what are the thoughts I'm having that are impacting the result that I'm getting, which is a whole other conversation for us to dive into with our with our upside down triangle. But but I think that's a big piece of it is. And it could be a lot of different things. It could be fear of failure, but it could be fear of success. Mhm.

Speaker2:
Right. Yeah. That one's.

Speaker3:
Sneaky. What happens if I'm successful in this in this endeavor. You know what's going to happen.

Speaker2:
What changes? Because it doesn't stay the same. Right?

Speaker3:
Right, right. I mean, if you had, um, not taken the chance to go in to do the freestyle at the Congress all those years ago that launched that really, you know, launched you. Um, you could have very easily been like, well, what if what if this goes really well and all of the sudden our life changes as a family?

Speaker2:
That's interesting to try to weigh out which one would have been more.

Speaker3:
Terrifying, right?

Speaker2:
And actually the only one I considered was like it going horribly bad. And I kind of accepted everything that could happen on that end. Right. But you don't really think about any quote unquote negative things that could happen from the success.

Speaker3:
Yeah.

Speaker2:
Yeah. It was kind of actually a blessing that I did that ride. And it didn't go viral for two years afterwards. Right. So there was actually a lot of time to grieve and to do a bunch of other stuff before that happened. But one more thought I don't want to drop before four is something along the lines of that woman asking the question about, you know, kind of that fear of not reaching a bucket list.

Speaker3:
Thing, right? Yeah.

Speaker2:
But I think there's something there's something to this. There's something to the idea that you can stand in a position and look at something and say you want it, right. And also say, I'm choosing not to have it.

Speaker3:
Yes. That I don't.

Speaker2:
See that often. There's two things that and these are these are kind of I think they're flip flop opposites. But maybe I'm wrong. So there's one there's this idea that you could you could look at something and you could say, I could choose to do that. And I could see a bunch of positive, but I'm still going to choose something different. I think that's a really tough place for people. And sometimes when, sometimes when people are like, I really like when there's that, it's a scarcity feeling. Now that I'm saying it. Like when the person has this, like, bucket list thing and there's this, like, grabby scarcity kind of a feeling towards like, I got to get it now because the time is ticking and I need to do it now. And that scarcity makes it really hard to chase it because it's a it's kind of a grabby feeling. So maybe that's the first thing I'm reacting to. But then there's also this beauty of being able to look at something and be able to say, that'd be so cool to have that, and maybe I will and maybe I won't.

Speaker2:
And then it doesn't have that scarcity feeling. Yeah. But for some reason, this flip flop version of it, and I've only really identified it one time in my life. We were climbing. We were down in Kentucky and we went on this I'm going to do air quotes. Hike. We went on this hike with some college students. And FYI, like, I think everything should be done horseback, right? So hiking is already in the negative because it doesn't have a horse. And we were walking and it was it was kind of fine. And then it turned into like, oh, well, the path is a little steep. I'm terrified of heights, by the way. Again, it's like I'm climbing and this has turned into like this steep, like, now. This has turned now into like we are climbing up like, belly against the ground, like root to root, like climbing. And, you know, they're like, oh, it's only like 20ft like this. So you get up 20ft and no, it's not only 20ft. But now going down is more terrifying than going up.

Speaker3:
You on that.

Speaker2:
And so.

Speaker3:
And I have to come in and at this.

Speaker2:
Point I am I am also vulnerably honest at this point I'm like, I am ticked that I am in this, but I'm not happy that I'm in this position. But I'm also like, you know, I'm dealing. And so we go through this and there's another, there's another young lady with me, and she's having essentially the same reaction I am. We're both honestly scared and we're both pushing and doing it. So we end up climbing like this, you know, for like 18 hours, which is really probably 20 minutes like felt like, are we almost at the top of Mount Everest?

Speaker3:
Because I feel like the oxygen is getting thin.

Speaker2:
Exactly. And so like 20 minutes later, we finally get to the top and we had two opposite reactions. Hers was the classic movie reaction. Hers was the like, yes, I did that. I feel so empowered. I'm so grateful. And I'm like, I am glad I am alive and I will never do that again. I would never have chosen that and I will never willingly do that again.

Speaker3:
Like I am setting a boundary right now.

Speaker2:
And but I thought it was so interesting because we both did the same thing. We both had the same climb. But at the end of the day, when we stand at the top, I turned around because we knew each other fairly well and I'm like, I only want to say this, you could be having that reaction, really, or you could be faking that reaction because you think you should.

Speaker3:
Right.

Speaker2:
Because that would be the movie ending.

Speaker3:
Yeah.

Speaker2:
Only you will ever know, right? Only you will ever know whether or not this is your actual thing. But you think about it because if you just go into this movie that you should think you're going to block something real. Mhm. Like I am never climbing that again. Which is fine right.

Speaker3:
Oh my gosh how often does that happen. I'm wondering with with our horses or with us. You know it's it's that to me it's that um. Oh somebody somebody kind of making you feel like you need to get on that horse.

Speaker2:
Exactly.

Speaker3:
That you. Everything in you says this is a bad idea.

Speaker2:
Now, in that moment, what do you think you're transmitting to the horse when everything in you says that? Well, right.

Speaker3:
This is. I mean, think of think of how often I mean, that's a whole other piece too, right? Of everything. We're transmitting non-verbally and energetically to the horse. And but I mean, this, this whole human nature thing. Right? Of of why we feel like we have to set aside all of these things in us that are telling us one thing. Mhm. And, and then do something that we totally just know isn't going to. Isn't something that is right for us. It might be perfectly fine for I got a friend who would get on any horse and God bless him, you know, I mean at some point in time I think is nine lives are going to come to an end. But.

Speaker2:
But.

Speaker3:
But there's this so much power around our thinking, awareness and our, well, all of it. Our the what? Our. We're not even aware of that stuff. Yeah. Like we're not even aware that we might be completely ignoring stuff. Or we we discount it. Yeah, we discount what we're really feeling and thinking. Mhm. Um, which way do you think.

Speaker2:
We do that. Why. Like why? Like let's just take that example. Climb to the top of the hill. You had like 18 hours, 20 minutes of climbing in this one motion. Like why at the top of the hill. Why switch gears. Why is it. Why? Why would we do that? I haven't explored this. Really?

Speaker3:
Well, I think it's the same thing. I mean, what I was talking about with when you. When you make the decision to get on that horse, that everything in you says this is not probably not a good idea is because of our, our social structure. Right. We don't want to be perceived.

Speaker2:
Oh, okay.

Speaker3:
Yeah. A certain way. Right.

Speaker2:
So the perception, if you get to the top and you do it, the better perception would be.

Speaker3:
You're a winner. You're. You're strong. I'm strong.

Speaker2:
Right. I succeeded.

Speaker3:
Right.

Speaker2:
And we can pull out another six words like that succeed and accomplishment and. Yeah. Okay. Right. Right. So you could label that whole thing something, quote unquote positive, just because it would then have this top of the mountain experience, which is very classic.

Speaker3:
Right. Right.

Speaker2:
But. Yeah. But if that's not what you really experienced. Well, because.

Speaker3:
To me and I mean, you know, for some, for some people that might be a pivotal moment, right? So that person, that person, the other person might possibly for her, that might have been a parallel to other things, other times in her life where she's felt really are scared, insecure, whatever. Howard and climbing up that helped her realize she could kind of push through some of that fear and and accomplish a goal. Yeah, that might be something that she carries over the next time when she's faced with some other goal that seems unattainable or is seems like, oh gosh, I'm not sure about this. She may now have the courage to step into that, and that's great. It is. Um, but.

Speaker2:
And I might have the courage to be like, no, thank you. Right.

Speaker3:
And but that's okay. But that's okay because it's about what's right for you.

Speaker2:
Yeah.

Speaker3:
Yeah. I mean.

Speaker2:
That is what's so unique.

Speaker3:
I think that's the thing. And that's that's where like when, when, when you have people coming to your clinics, um, you know, there may be a, there may be a different response. I don't know if it's just one person with you or if it's 2 or 3 people with you. Right. Because as soon as you add in some other people into the mix, um, outside of just like you and one other client right now, you have other people. Now there's that whole, oh, gosh, all of this stuff of what do they think about me? And oh, I don't want them to think I'm that I don't know what I'm doing. And all of this stuff, we go through this whole we we tell ourselves so many stories. Yeah, every moment of every day. And those stories are what shape how we respond to ourselves and each other. And those stories shape the decisions we make in the moment. And so, you know, if you have someone that that is telling themselves a story in order to try and convince themselves that they feel or think differently than what they actually do, right, they're actually creating Discomfort for the horse.

Speaker2:
Wait a minute. One of my favorite words I've had from you. Incongruent. Incongruent.

Speaker3:
You read my mind.

Speaker2:
Yes.

Speaker3:
You read my mind.

Speaker2:
Because that would be so. As long as. Like if we both got to the top of the mountain. And we were both. We were both congruent with each other. If my if mine, if my ending, if my happy ending is I have an empowered no. And her happy ending is she has the ability to say I can I can do more than I thought I could. Right. We can both be congruent. It's just watching for the incongruency. Right. Of like, making sure that you're not just doing the storybook ending. Because that's what the movies do.

Speaker3:
Right. Right. And you want you. You don't want people to see who you really are.

Speaker2:
Right. That you that you could actually do that and then still not like it. Right. It's still not appreciated or whatever.

Speaker3:
So, I mean, you put yourself out there a little bit by being congruent in that statement, because there might have been other people there who when you got to the top, they were like, yeah, you did it.

Speaker2:
Good job.

Speaker3:
And but if that's not your congruence, right. You know, um, and you, you're, you step out and you go, you know, actually, I'm just going to say that I will never do that again.

Speaker2:
Right.

Speaker3:
You know, and then because.

Speaker2:
It makes them uncomfortable.

Speaker3:
Well, it does. Right. Yeah.

Speaker2:
Because I didn't just fit in.

Speaker3:
Yes. And you, you also kind of called them out on their assumption that you getting to the top of that was, was somehow going to be a celebration. Yeah. You know what I mean. And empowerment or whatever that is, their intention may have been genuine, right. But in reality, that's unfair for them to expect for you to get up there and and say, yes, I did it knowing that that's not congruent for you in order to accommodate them and not make them feel uncomfortable. Yeah. You know, we we practice incongruence regularly as human beings because we don't want other people to be uncomfortable because and I experienced this a lot after the fire, you know, because people people want to ask about it. Like they, you know, or they even people saying, how are you doing? Um, my initial instinct just Yeah., you know, is to say, oh, I'm doing okay. Yeah. Because if I tell you how I'm really feeling right in this moment, it could be very uncomfortable for you to have to hear.

Speaker2:
You know?

Speaker3:
And so I'm going to be very conscientious of trying to prevent you from having to feel discomfort. And so, um, but because my horses demand that I am congruent all the time. Um, and they, they tell me every moment when I am with them, whether I'm being congruent or not. And so I made the decision for myself to be congruent. And so when people would ask me, it's not as not as bad now because six months have gone by and I've done a lot of emotional work through this. Um, but even still, there's if I'm not really doing well in the moment with something in regards particularly to that experience, and you say, oh, man, you know, how are things going with the fire or how are things going with the house? I just look and I go, it's really horrible. Yeah. You know, we've been through this terrible experience with the insurance company, and it's taken us six months to be able to even get started on the house. It's been very frustrating, very disappointing. Um, I'm I'm just going to tell you like it is, because I need to do that for my own mental and physical well-being. Because if I'm always being incongruent, in order to make you feel more comfortable, it's going to end up impacting me negatively.

Speaker2:
Well, and what's interesting is that's, I think, what drew me to you initially when you reached out and contacted me about possibly coming to my barn to use it for one of your events. Yeah. And and so was that every interaction we had had that congruent feeling. And that is definitely something that I for sure feel and know is a key to working with the horses. Right. Because it's it's just. Yeah, I mean they show up as who they are. It's just and it's so simple, so much more simple if you just do it. But and and in the last video that I just released, it was so funny because I said I came out and, um, for the last one of the trail to the world show. I was at the show and I said, grab the video camera and videotape this, and I'm holding my horse off. And I just flipped over and hosed my head off in the wash rack, and she jokingly said, I'm going to use this for blackmail. And I say, good luck, because I'm going to post it on the internet myself. So, like so it's so much more simple. And the people that just left from my last clinic, they were like, I have to say, you're just like you are in your videos and your podcasts. Like you just we just went to coffee with you and you sound exactly like you do when you're talking. I know that is probably the biggest compliment I get now. Like, I am happy that. But it's also just dead simple.

Speaker3:
It is, it is.

Speaker2:
But but I actually I was thinking on the way here that I say it's dead simple. But here's the biggest challenge to it. You just nailed it. It is. I'm going to be me. And the discomfort comes from knowing I'm going to potentially make you Uncomfortable.

Speaker3:
Right.

Speaker2:
Mhm. Like there it is. It is so. Yeah. And so it's not, it's not for me at this point. It's not a question of whether or not I'm going to be me. And again that doesn't mean I'm just going to run around. I mean I've come to this place also means I've done a lot of work, right. In other areas. So I'm not just running around being like, you made me angry. I'm gonna punch you in the face. No. Yeah. Like, it's not. It's not a it's not this raw, but that's that's.

Speaker3:
Also not really congruent to some extent.

Speaker2:
But that's what I'm saying. But I think sometimes people hear it and they're like, oh, if I let myself be me who? You know what I mean, right? But there's a growth pattern that's come with it. And I think that I think that's why it's important to to go on the whole journey all the way through. But yeah, it's, it's, it's simple in that I get to be me. And it's challenging in that you have to decide what you're going to do with me. You have to decide. You have to be like, okay, she just hosed her head off and she just, you know, she just said that and I don't know if I agree or not. I don't even need people to agree. I'm right. I'm into conversation. Right? Yes. So, you know, like I'm going to learn more in the next week. And I hope I'm still growing and changing next week and next month and next year.

Speaker3:
And I know. Yeah. So I totally am on board with you. I mean, I think that's like from the first time that we got together, because I remember the first time we came down here the summer they closed and we ended up, we were across the street sitting outside with little table. Yeah. And, um, but I just, I remember thinking of how, how much I appreciated that congruence because I was like, oh, it's so comfortable for me to be with someone else who can be who's congruent and is perfectly okay with it, you know? And and there wasn't this, there wasn't this like, oh my gosh, I don't want to make her uncomfortable kind of thing. We both came together and we were just like, this is who we are. Yeah. Whatever happens. But here we are. You know, two years later, we still coming and having these, you know, two, we could probably go way longer if both of us didn't put a boundary on it in some way. Um, but I think that's why our conversations are so organic, too, right? Because there's no there's no, like, methodical. Oh. Let's see. Don't want to have that conversation. Oh, I shouldn't say that. Or this. We both just sort of throw stuff out there and we're like, what do you think about that? And we can have conversation around it. And um, because I think to some extent, at least to me, in a lot of our conversations, we're trying to not not just figure out how do we both stay congruent with ourselves and on our journey and in our businesses? But how do we both? Because we both work with clients in a little bit different aspect, right? You're working with people to help them learn how to enjoy their horses and accomplish their goals with their horses.

Speaker3:
And I'm teaching people how to be better leaders by working with the horses and learning from the horses. But we're both always trying to figure out how can we help our clients learn to be comfortable in the congruence? How can we both help our clients take the information from the horses, which is simply information? Nothing. No bias, no agenda, nothing behind it. How can we help our clients take that information from the horses and and do something differently from that? You know, and and say, how can I use this information to move towards what I want to and not take the information as a threat and move away from it? You know, because to me, that's something that in our conversations when you and I are kind of exploring some of our upper limit problems and things like that, we're both trying to find a way. How do I keep moving towards what I want.

Speaker2:
Despite all the plastic bags that are flapping around? Exactly.

Speaker3:
Right, right.

Speaker2:
Scary things that we don't understand.

Speaker3:
Yes. Yeah. And so that to me is a that's such a powerful mindset, you know. So so when we set goals for ourselves, we've made the choice to look at things that come that might get in our way as information. Yeah. And say, okay, what am I going to do with this information? You know, I mean, I think I had shared with you, uh, one of the last times we were talking, I was like, I am totally hitting an upper limit thing right now. Yeah. You know, with my business. And, um, but I recognized that it was just information. And then I thought, okay, so how do I keep moving towards what I want as opposed to this information is kind of making me uncomfortable. And so I'm going to try to move away from it. Mhm. And and so that to me I think is a big part of you know when we're looking at our goals, whether it's with our horses or in other parts of our life, is really recognizing that when we become uncomfortable, that's the point of potential growth. Mhm. Right. Because every time you and I have had conversations around whichever one of us is, is, you know, looking at some upper limit issue that we're having, it's like, oh, this is so uncomfortable. This is so uncomfortable. And I really would like to just walk away from it and go back to just keep doing things the way I have been doing, or even though that's not helping me achieve what I want to, that's not moving me towards my goal. But it's comfortable.

Speaker2:
Yeah. known.

Speaker3:
Right? Certain. That's that certainty. I know over here I can feel certainty. I can feel safe in that space, even though it's not getting me to where I want to go. Right. But if we can. If we can shift. And this is where I think, you know, you and I are really trying to figure out how do we help our clients be able to see that and to be open to okay, well, this is what the horse is telling me. I'm going to set aside all of the story that I'm telling myself about it and how this my horse is this or that, right? My horse is stubborn. My horse doesn't want to do this. My horse or whatever. Take the information and go, okay, so what can I do with this information? What can I do differently? And it might be a little uncomfortable for me to step into whatever that is to do differently, but I'm going to look at it as if I do something differently. It's going to move me closer to my goal as opposed to moving me back away from it. Because then what happens is we go back into that place of comfort. And, I mean, this happened to me with my mayor. I would go back into my place of comfort and then I would beat myself up.

Speaker2:
That was comfortable, right?

Speaker3:
Right. I would be.

Speaker2:
Like.

Speaker3:
Oh my gosh, I'm a failure. And I can't, you know, why am I why do I keep doing it? Why am I doing this? And why can't I just go ride my horse? And so I was self-taught.

Speaker2:
That's so perfect. Because that's exactly the same phrase is when I'm trying something new, I Say them all again. Oh, my. Why am I doing this?

Speaker3:
What am I? I'm a failure.

Speaker2:
I'm like.

Speaker3:
Yeah, I'm.

Speaker2:
Not. Literally. Same words on both sides. Same words. When you withdraw and you don't try. Right? As when you stick your neck out there and you do right. Because odds are, you know what? When you stick your neck out there and try something new, you know it's going to happen. It's not going to go well, right, right, right. But but then.

Speaker3:
You have information that you can learn from.

Speaker2:
Exactly.

Speaker3:
But if you don't step out into it if you withdraw. Mhm. You you shortchange yourself.

Speaker2:
Same pain, same phrasing, same pain. Literally. You just said the same words that were in my mind, like I'd be standing dressed in dressage gear, trying to lead my horse into the arena with all of these rules that I know, I don't know, I literally all I know is I don't know the rules, right?

Speaker3:
And you have a pretty good feeling things might not.

Speaker2:
Turn out the.

Speaker3:
Way that you would like them to.

Speaker2:
Yeah, but that's so fascinating that you just said the same words when you were talking about pulling back, right? That literally is the same. But you're right. I end up with new information, right? Because when they ring the bell and they tell you don't do that.

Speaker3:
And so what happens, right is then you walk away from that and you go, all right. So now I know now you've created a new connection in your brain so that now the next time you go, your brain goes, hey, remember when they rang the bell? And that was uncomfortable because you felt embarrassed? Don't do that again.

Speaker2:
Yeah.

Speaker3:
You know, but we we expend so much energy trying to avoid those feelings.

Speaker2:
And here's the other rub I'm going to put on that is that. And you just said the energy we expend. Here's the interesting thing is I'm having trouble recovering. I expended a ton of energy doing something good. Yes, but I also recognized you can expend a ton of energy avoiding doing anything.

Speaker3:
Yes, yes. Why not expend the energy moving towards than spending it moving away.

Speaker2:
Maybe it's important to note that, like, tiredness is real.

Speaker3:
It is. Yes. You know.

Speaker2:
Because like I'm trying to I'm going to use this again. Like I need a better word, but I'm trying to force myself to relax. Can anybody else hear the problem here? Like I probably need to. I believe that's called.

Speaker3:
An oxymoron of forcing yourself to relax. Like. But I totally get it.

Speaker2:
Yeah. Because it's like I need to allow this recovery time. And actually, the easiest way for me to do that is when I look at the horses and I go, they need some recovery also physically from the physical output. Right. But I think there's mental there. I think there's also.

Speaker3:
I was just going to say that, I mean, yeah, there was a lot of there was a lot of mental expectation put on your horses for, I mean, throughout this whole summer of preparing to go to the Western Dressage World show. Um, you know, of of all those experiences of going to all the different horse shows and, and, you know, sometimes you had you had some challenges with, you know, sometimes when they went, they were separated and you were having to work. That was a lot of emotional stuff for your horses as well. And, and but all of that, I mean, you know, every time you're taking your horses out of their comfort zone, right, and putting them on a trailer and you're taking them somewhere, you're asking them to step into, into uncertainty. Um, I think it's only fair that we do the same thing, that we're willing to step into the uncertainty and go, you know what? I'm going to take a chance. I'm going to trust that I have the skills to be able to work through this. And you know what? It's okay if it doesn't look like this perfect framed thing that you can take a picture at.

Speaker2:
Any moment and it would look balanced.

Speaker3:
Right? That's those those are the pictures we post on Facebook so that everyone thinks we have our stuff together and everyone thinks we have. We're in balance, you know. I will share that. I have some videos. I have videos of myself in the months, particularly in the days, weeks right after the fire, but even a couple of months after the fire. I have some videos, sort of of my own in my my diary that maybe someday I will post, but they're pretty raw. Yeah. You know, I didn't post those on Facebook. You know, I post on Facebook, I post the like, hey, just kind of want to keep everybody in the loop. You know, here's what's going on. And, you know, we're really pushing through this. And I'm being congruent when I'm when I'm in those like I'm not doing a video and saying, um, you know, we're doing okay. Here's what's happening. I did those videos when I was feeling congruent in it.

Speaker2:
This is so key because I was actually just thinking, because I do video and I do podcasts and I do all these different things. So my voice and my face and stuff is out there in a lot of different ways. And I was looking at it, and my brain will offer me some interesting thoughts and one of them.

Speaker3:
Those brains.

Speaker2:
Do. And one of them was you sound a bit like a crazy person all over the place, but you're right. In the moment I'm congruent. And like, if I'm congruently tired when I'm filming this one, I'm going to sound a certain way. That's right. And if I'm if I'm super wound up and excited, then I sound a different way. And if somebody wants to line up, you know, six different ones and then judge me across the board as being like, you know, all over the place, I'm like, I guess that'll happen. But it's interesting that my brain can offer that up as a oh no, like and I'm like, okay, thank you, brain. But, you know, that was all of it was real. All of it was real. It was all real when it was happening. Right. Death of a dream was the right title for that back then. If I was if I was writing that story today, it wouldn't feel as dramatic because I'm removed from it so many years. The lessons would stick, right, but some of the emotion would be turned down a little bit more. But I just have to trust that whoever read that at the time or sees it wherever. Like that. It resonates with people because everybody goes through these emotions.

Speaker3:
You do, and I think it's really important to not discount them. I see emotions as information. You know, if I'm feeling something, I'm going to pay attention to it and be like, mm, why am I feeling this way? You know why? Why am I what's triggering me to have this positive or negative emotion? Because I pay attention to the stuff that triggers me to feel good, to triggers me to feel positive thoughts and, and, um, and, and move me in a direction of like, hey, this is really good. I'm going to keep doing this. I don't just focus on being triggered by negative stuff, you know? And so I think it is important to pay attention to those things. But but you chose you chose to acknowledge what you were feeling from that experience when it happened. And then you again chose to step back into the arena, you know, and be like, okay, that was information. I it was it didn't feel good. It felt uncomfortable. It was not something that I really, you know, if I could have made a choice, I would have liked to have not had to experience that. But had you not experienced that, you may not have grown to where you where you did. Right. And I mean, that's a big thing I think about a lot with the fire is, um, how how can I how can I grow from this experience? And, and I, I mean, I've grown tremendously because a it's it's taught me it's taught me to really be present all the time. Um, it's taught me to not take things for granted, even more so. I mean, I've never been someone who took things for granted because, you know, I've had a lot of life experiences of.

Speaker3:
And but but in particular this one really. I mean, that's part of what drove me to go ahead and say and step into saying yes to grad school. I had applied two years ago and gotten accepted, and I said no because I had all kinds of upper limit problems stuff going on. Yeah. And, but but this time I was like, I think this is really something. I know this is something I want to do, and I'm not going to say no to it because I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. You know, and I don't want to I don't want to spend another two years going online every now and then seeing, seeing something about this program, this grad program, or even thinking about it in my own business of, oh man, I really wish I had done that grad program. I think that would really be helpful to me in my business and my coaching work. And, and but I really at this time, I decided to do it for me, because the other thing is when I, when I applied two years ago, is that some of it was I wanted to do it because I thought that it would somehow increase my status with other people in, in my field or in the field of leadership development or whatever. So so there was incongruence around it, right? I wasn't really being congruent at that point in time about about why I wanted to do the program, why I wanted to go back to school. Um, because I need another school loan. And, um, but this time it felt so congruent.

Speaker3:
And, and I think that's had a big role in why, you know, just finishing up my fourth week of school. So I don't know, I've still got a lot, you know, I've got 12 more months to go, but I think because I'm very congruent in why I'm doing it, that it seems really easy. And the reason I share that is because I think about what you were talking about with, with, with your clients or having a client, you know, who's like in the scarcity mindset, right? And oh, I need to do this. And is that really congruent? Because being in that mindset of, I'm not doing this because I really want to do it and I'm okay with whatever happens from it. That that is going to prevent them from really stepping into the experience with the horse and really learning from the horse and learning to enjoy it because it's more it's like it's a task. It's like, this is something this is a Czech thing. I need to check off my list. Yes. And that was kind of how I was looking at grad school two years ago. This time, I'm doing it for me because I have a genuine curiosity and passion for trying to understand why we do the things we do, and being able to take that into organizations. Because I'm really passionate about about organizations operating differently and understanding that you have tasks to complete in order to achieve your strategy. But there's people involved in that, and that's really what's happening for people with their horses. When you set a goal with your horse, this task oriented.

Speaker2:
That's what people, I think avoid it.

Speaker3:
Right. So you have a task, you have a goal, but you have another living thinking, being involved with you in that. So it's you and the horse. Both are have are going through the experience together.

Speaker2:
And get this like people will avoid setting the task Ask, and I'm just going to use the word show because we have been. They'll avoid setting something like that, like a goal, because it's going to automatically turn into it's easy to check it out as tasks. There's like you can it's very achievable. It lines out well, which is the very thing that makes it move you forward. But then people will come and they'll say, I don't want to show. I don't want to put that kind of pressure on myself or on my horse.

Speaker3:
Right.

Speaker2:
But you can't avoid being together and developing some kind of a language. You either have a map where you're headed somewhere or you don't. But what happens is they go try to just be right and and and it it lasts for a little while. But the horse has all these different questions. And if the handler doesn't have any answers for it because they don't really have any clarity on what is going on aside from being with you where the horse is like, I can be with you and I can go back to the barn, I can be with you and I can eat the grass. I can be with you, and I can actually, I don't want to be with you. I think I'll go be with my friend. Right. What are you going to do with that? And if you're just kind of like, I don't know what to do with that, then the horse is like, okay, I'll make a plan.

Speaker3:
I'm gonna do it.

Speaker2:
I'll make a plan then. And so you don't avoid. You don't avoid the. You don't avoid these conversations of of developing a relationship with a horse. You don't avoid it by avoiding the tasks the you just become. The horse is the one that sets the tasks right. The horse is the one that the horse starts setting it by. You're. So you're either being proactive in the way that you're doing it, or you're being reactive to what the horse does like. Right? You know, the horse is like, what are you gonna do with this one? They're like, well, because.

Speaker3:
The horse is trying to figure out the relationship.

Speaker2:
Yes. Yeah. That's all.

Speaker3:
What is our what is this relationship here? And and if you're not leading, then I guess I have to do it. Yeah.

Speaker1:
If you enjoy listening to Stacy's podcast, please visit Stacy Westfall. Com for articles, videos and tips to help you and your horse succeed.

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